Career Change
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I still have 10 months left on my school loan, but I'm not making big payments either... the interest is so low it didn't matter much.
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@jaredbusch said in Career Change:
@nerdydad said in Career Change:
I actually have a degree in IT, a Master's in fact, but it looks like I'm more of the exception to the rule than the rule itself.
You really don't need a degree to start in IT. Helpdesk is not entry into IT. It is another field of IT.
I'll quote Scott from above on some things. Start a home lab. You don't have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on hardware and licenses. You can spend $5-10/month on Vultr or Linode, get a vm with Fedora or Debian Linux and begin building stuff.
If Linux isn't you're thing, then you might want to check out VyOS for networking and switching, or get yourself some Ubiquiti equipment and do a small network at home.
I too have a Masters in IT (will be paid off in 3 months finally), but I got that later in life when I was at AT&T and looking to move out of the Union and into Development.
Also IT from that college doens't mean IT. It means anything to do with a fucking computer.
What school did you get your degree from?
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@tim_g said in Career Change:
I've read articles of people with PhDs who can't buy houses because they have a million dollar education debt... Fine if you are a medical field doctor making a quarter million a year... but those aren't the only PhD holders...
Quarter million is a terrible income for a PhD. LOL. That's a great example of how doctors could never justify the time and cost of school.
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Obviously depends on what kind of medical doctor you are:
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Considering the salary range for IT with NO degree... IT can do way better.
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IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
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@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's like that for everyone.
Find me an SMB who will pay an IT generalist 300k... you wont. Perhaps as you said, a specialized system admin for an enterprise.
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@tim_g said in Career Change:
Find me an SMB who will pay an IT generalist 300k... you wont.
Find me that, and I'll probably do some depraved shit for that job.
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@tim_g said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
But the jobs are out there. SMB doesn't have system admins, either. That's the actual difference in pay. System Admins make good money.
But it's not just enterprises paying that. Loads of 500 and fewer companies pay in that range.
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Today I learned I did everything wrong. CIS Degree, started at minimum wage, don't make anywhere near doctor money, don't have a home lab, never post on here, and don't blog. I still work in IT, live in my hometown, make ok money, and have a good time with people I enjoy. Cheers and good luck man! Get out there and get your feet wet.
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@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@tim_g said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
But the jobs are out there. SMB doesn't have system admins, either. That's the actual difference in pay. System Admins make good money.
But it's not just enterprises paying that. Loads of 500 and fewer companies pay in that range.
yeah - you say that, but I've never seen it. I know that itself is meaningless... but I'd really like to know where these 500 or less person companies are that are paying IT 300K +
and compared to SMB IT, how many are getting that? 10% of the industry? 5%? 50% who knows?
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@dashrender said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@tim_g said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
But the jobs are out there. SMB doesn't have system admins, either. That's the actual difference in pay. System Admins make good money.
But it's not just enterprises paying that. Loads of 500 and fewer companies pay in that range.
yeah - you say that, but I've never seen it. I know that itself is meaningless... but I'd really like to know where these 500 or less person companies are that are paying IT 300K +
and compared to SMB IT, how many are getting that? 10% of the industry? 5%? 50% who knows?
Yeah, but you've but multiple people in this community that have topped those numbers
And I've known thousands getting into that range.In Silicon Valley, $300K isn't that crazy, nor in NYC. Nor in Connecticut. And I've seen it in Chicago.
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@dashrender said in Career Change:
and compared to SMB IT, how many are getting that? 10% of the industry? 5%? 50% who knows?
This is the problem... with doctors, we take the "medical field" which includes doctors, dentists, nurses, nurse practitioners, radiation techs, candystripers, etc. and we don't look at them as a whole. We look only at the top jobs, the doctors. What percentage of medical workers make over $120K? Not many.
IT is similar. Huge field with nearly everyone in it at the base of the pyramid. And if you lump in the semi-IT jobs like bench, it explodes in size.
So if you compare IT to medicine, I think you'll find that the $200K+ rates in IT might beat those in medical. Remember, enterprise admin is "doctor" in IT speak. At which point, sure, a decent percentage are under $150K. But not that many.
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Consider that those in IT getting to those pay ranges generally do so around the same age that doctors are just interning, and generally do so with a long career history of income, and no debt - or at least more income and less debt - and the numbers look better and better.
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@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@dashrender said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@tim_g said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
But the jobs are out there. SMB doesn't have system admins, either. That's the actual difference in pay. System Admins make good money.
But it's not just enterprises paying that. Loads of 500 and fewer companies pay in that range.
yeah - you say that, but I've never seen it. I know that itself is meaningless... but I'd really like to know where these 500 or less person companies are that are paying IT 300K +
and compared to SMB IT, how many are getting that? 10% of the industry? 5%? 50% who knows?
Yeah, but you've but multiple people in this community that have topped those numbers
And I've known thousands getting into that range.In Silicon Valley, $300K isn't that crazy, nor in NYC. Nor in Connecticut. And I've seen it in Chicago.
yes, but you're also talking about high cost of living places...
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@dashrender said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@dashrender said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
@tim_g said in Career Change:
@scottalanmiller said in Career Change:
IT obviously has a ridiculously large range of income that starts around minimum wage. Doctors lack that low end stuff. But when you compare high end IT, the people for whom a PhD or MD is an option, IT gets paid really high. For example, at CitiGroup, entry level system admin, no college, under two years of experience, was $105K to start and got up to $200K. And they were considered one of the lowest in the market. And that was well over a decade ago, so a lot more money by today's standards.
That's in a large company and is enterprise IT. Most of us here are SMB, and not making anywhere near 300k.
But the jobs are out there. SMB doesn't have system admins, either. That's the actual difference in pay. System Admins make good money.
But it's not just enterprises paying that. Loads of 500 and fewer companies pay in that range.
yeah - you say that, but I've never seen it. I know that itself is meaningless... but I'd really like to know where these 500 or less person companies are that are paying IT 300K +
and compared to SMB IT, how many are getting that? 10% of the industry? 5%? 50% who knows?
Yeah, but you've but multiple people in this community that have topped those numbers
And I've known thousands getting into that range.In Silicon Valley, $300K isn't that crazy, nor in NYC. Nor in Connecticut. And I've seen it in Chicago.
yes, but you're also talking about high cost of living places...
That's where doctors make the big bucks, too.
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Within the pool of doctors and nurses alone, doctors only make up 23% of that pool. And that's hardly even beginning to be the entire field of medicine.
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In the total health field in the US, doctors are just the highest paid 8%. 92% of medical professionals don't earn what doctors earn. Often, nowhere close.
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So if we look at IT in similar ways and look at the highest trained and paid 8%. I bet you find similar things. And unlike medicine where there are qualifications requires for nearly every level of the field, IT has none. So people "reporting" as working in IT is much larger than what there really is out there. Look at SW, for example. Read some threads. Tons of the people in the community are just buyers and not IT themselves, managers and not IT themselves, sales people, bench techs, part time IT, business people trying to not hire IT, etc.
We can only guess, but of people identifying as IT, what percentage are we likely to actually accept as being in IT? 50% 25%? I know people who don't even know what a computer is but claim to be programmers because they think "installing an application from disk" and "programming" are the same thing. What about Curtis, he used a microwave and claims that makes him a developer!
Medical filters people out. You can't claim to work in medicine without a license or a job. But in IT, it's accepted that you just make the claim.
So imagine filtering out the self-claiming pool. Suddenly I bet you find the numbers improving rapidly.
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Then the question obviously becomes - how do we compare SMB and enterprise to medicine? That's pretty simple. Obviously the SMB might attract "doctor level" IT people. This is basically the equivalent to choosing to be a small town general family doctor. Yeah, the pay is going to be way lower, but you accept that going in because you like the atmosphere or the people or the pace or the variety.
Enterprise and "IT location" cities pay the most and are similar to surgeons in major facilities like Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, or Johns Hopkins. Like any profession, there are hot spots and locations that pay better, and ones that pay less. But there are other factors that make those other things desirable. Maybe doing heart surgery all day would be depressing or gross or too much stress. Maybe helping kids stay healthy makes you happier at the end of the day.
Money is hardly the end all of a job. There are so many more things that really matter.
