question about setting up a new domain controller
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it (users are on thin clients). He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
We do not currently have any 2016 servers running in our environment (except one that is in evaluation)
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it. He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
Very much so, he's missed the most basic licensing that there is. You have no licensing for the use of Windows. You have licensing to install Windows, and to use an app that runs on top of it, but you have no licensing to use the operating system which means all of the licensing here is useless until you have that.
This is exactly the kind of things we hear from CDW all of the time - they want to make a quick sale and don't use people who have any idea about anything and just look up some prices under the pretense of being knowledgeable about something so that they can claim to be a VAR.
That Windows Server needs CALs is pretty basic stuff. I mean, even if you were the first customer this guy ever had, this is a pretty big miss. What is there to know about Windows licensing if he doesn't know that it requires CALs?
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In this particular case, the rep didn't try to overcharge you, it would seem. But he didn't do you any favours, either. He might have zero clue about Windows, or he might have been trying to keep the pricing low enough that you wouldn't balk at buying from him. Maybe he thought that selling you only half the licenses would make his rate seem cheaper than a competitor. Hard to know what he was playing at, but you couldn't have provided a better example of why sales people are never ever to be used as advisers; even the simplest thing that he could have to do, he blatantly screwed up and it was your demo example as well!
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it. He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
Very much so, he's missed the most basic licensing that there is. You have no licensing for the use of Windows. You have licensing to install Windows, and to use an app that runs on top of it, but you have no licensing to use the operating system which means all of the licensing here is useless until you have that.
This is exactly the kind of things we hear from CDW all of the time - they want to make a quick sale and don't use people who have any idea about anything and just look up some prices under the pretense of being knowledgeable about something so that they can claim to be a VAR.
That Windows Server needs CALs is pretty basic stuff. I mean, even if you were the first customer this guy ever had, this is a pretty big miss. What is there to know about Windows licensing if he doesn't know that it requires CALs?
ok, so how many Server CALs do I need in this case? I did kind of try and ask him if I needed CALs for the server (In my own ignorant way) and I think the discussion went in the direction of getting either user or device cals.
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
ok, then, should I simply go direct through MS to purchase licensing myself? How do you do it? I don't want to waste my company's money by purchasing from a seller that has high prices, but I also want help in purchasing the correct server licensing.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
So the proper places to get this advice is from IT folks, not sales people. This is no different than any other IT guidance. For something simple like this, you should always have an ITSP to help with this stuff, one quick email would have sorted it out in seconds. But you also could just ask in ML.
For this you need...
- One licensed server (the 8 two core licenses listed, assuming you have no more than sixteen cores on the box.)
- 80 Windows Server 2016 User CALs to be able to use the server
- 80 RDS User CALs to be able to use the terminal server feature (called RDS)
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
ok, then, should I simply go direct through MS to purchase licensing myself? How do you do it? I don't want to waste my company's money, but I also want help in purchasing the correct server licensing.
Buying from a VAR is fine. Totally fine. The only issue is asking them what you need. It's rare that they either care to get it right (it's not in their interest normally) nor do they often know enough to get it right (they are not IT people, they are sales people, this isn't what they know how to do.) Using CDW is fine as long as you verify the price and don't let them lead you astray; which they will try to do.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
Easiest to ask in ML. But @NTG has been doing this for a long time. As has @Bundy-Associates and others in the community. Licensing is quick and easy, not something you need more than a thread for. And sometimes that turns up good info about licensing that someone knows a trick to.
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Simple answer to Windows Server licensing....
You must license....
- Each server instance that you run for install. A "Standard" license grants you two VMs on one physical device. A "DC" license grants you unlimited on each device. You need all cores on the box covered.
- Each user that uses any Windows resource must have a CAL to cover them OR every device (even printers, scanners, time clocks, thermostats, etc.) that use any Windows resources needs a CAL. Basically you want user licenses, if you think Device CALs sound good, 99% chance you are missing something.
User CALs for old versions don't apply to new versions; not do Server licenses. So if this is your first 2016 system, you need 2016 CALs for your users. Once you have them, you don't need them again until the next CAL version released (expected in 2020.)
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
Easiest to ask in ML. But @NTG has been doing this for a long time. As has @Bundy-Associates and others in the community. Licensing is quick and easy, not something you need more than a thread for. And sometimes that turns up good info about licensing that someone knows a trick to.
ok. Thanks Scott. I appreciate the help.
The only issue I have asking for help here, it seems, is that threads often times get deviated because people immediately start questioning why things are the way they are in an environment. I don't mind that so much, and I appreciate the valuable input, but sometimes it's really frustrating when it's every little thing that's being questioned. And I'm sure that if I list my licensing needs, people will start questioning why I need this or that when I should be doing it some other way.. That being said, i will still make a post at some point here..
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Some prices on those RDS CALs that CDW is charging $122 for...
Only saves $160, but these things add up.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
Easiest to ask in ML. But @NTG has been doing this for a long time. As has @Bundy-Associates and others in the community. Licensing is quick and easy, not something you need more than a thread for. And sometimes that turns up good info about licensing that someone knows a trick to.
ok. Thanks Scott. I appreciate the help.
The only issue I have asking for help here, it seems, is that threads often times get deviated because people immediately start questioning why things are the way they are in an environment. I don't mind that so much, and I appreciate the valuable input, but sometimes it's really frustrating when it's every little thing that's being questioned. And I'm sure that if I list my licensing needs, people will start questioning why I need this or that when I should be doing it some other way.. That being said, i will still make a post at some point here..
Well, look at it this way... it was only by questioning every little thing that made me ask why your users weren't licensed to use Windows Server. What seems like "questioning every little thing" is how IT works. You can't do IT without that. If we didn't, we'd answer what is asked rather than what is meant or what is needed.
Sometimes you really do know exactly what you need and why and the extra questions are annoying. But when that is the case, generally answering the questions is quick and simple. If you don't already know the answers, then probably you aren't confident (or shouldn't be) as to what you are asking and all the clarifications and questioning are far more valuable than the answer to the initial questions.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
So the proper places to get this advice is from IT folks, not sales people. This is no different than any other IT guidance. For something simple like this, you should always have an ITSP to help with this stuff, one quick email would have sorted it out in seconds. But you also could just ask in ML.
For this you need...
- One licensed server (the 8 two core licenses listed, assuming you have no more than sixteen cores on the box.)
- 80 Windows Server 2016 User CALs to be able to use the server
- 80 RDS User CALs to be able to use the terminal server feature (called RDS)
So do I only need one User CAL per user in my environment, for the highest version of Windows Server that I have?
Time for me to find the official MS license information page so I can understand all of this..
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Another way to think of it....
By the time anyone has to ask a question, they are already at least one step past where they know everything that they need to know. Often many steps. This is common in all question asking.
For example, if you don't know when to add salt to the soup, then you probably don't know how much salt, what kind of salt, or possibly if you need salt at all.
It's best to always back up at least a step or two and question, at the very least, the thing that led you to the final question in addition to the final question.
It's like when you get lost. In our minds we say "I don't know which way to turn", but in reality, it was at least one turn previous that we didn't know which way to turn, but at that last turn we still felt confident, even though we were likely wrong. So backing up and evaluating the turn before, or possibly the turn before that, gives us a much better chance of finding our way.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
Easiest to ask in ML. But @NTG has been doing this for a long time. As has @Bundy-Associates and others in the community. Licensing is quick and easy, not something you need more than a thread for. And sometimes that turns up good info about licensing that someone knows a trick to.
ok. Thanks Scott. I appreciate the help.
The only issue I have asking for help here, it seems, is that threads often times get deviated because people immediately start questioning why things are the way they are in an environment. I don't mind that so much, and I appreciate the valuable input, but sometimes it's really frustrating when it's every little thing that's being questioned. And I'm sure that if I list my licensing needs, people will start questioning why I need this or that when I should be doing it some other way.. That being said, i will still make a post at some point here..
Well, look at it this way... it was only by questioning every little thing that made me ask why your users weren't licensed to use Windows Server. What seems like "questioning every little thing" is how IT works. You can't do IT without that. If we didn't, we'd answer what is asked rather than what is meant or what is needed.
Sometimes you really do know exactly what you need and why and the extra questions are annoying. But when that is the case, generally answering the questions is quick and simple. If you don't already know the answers, then probably you aren't confident (or shouldn't be) as to what you are asking and all the clarifications and questioning are far more valuable than the answer to the initial questions.
Yeah, I understand. I really shouldn't complain... you guys really help me out a lot. I've learned so much that I've realized that I almost don't know anything at all..
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
So the proper places to get this advice is from IT folks, not sales people. This is no different than any other IT guidance. For something simple like this, you should always have an ITSP to help with this stuff, one quick email would have sorted it out in seconds. But you also could just ask in ML.
For this you need...
- One licensed server (the 8 two core licenses listed, assuming you have no more than sixteen cores on the box.)
- 80 Windows Server 2016 User CALs to be able to use the server
- 80 RDS User CALs to be able to use the terminal server feature (called RDS)
So do I only need one User CAL per user in my environment, for the highest version of Windows Server that I have?
That is correct. If you are adding Windows Server 2016, then with the first server that you add you need one User CAL for every user in the company (unless you can make a great case that someone could never use any Windows resource ever.) So if you have 100 employees, and one server, you need 100 CALs. Add three more servers, no more CALs. Add one hundred new servers next year, still no more CALs. Each user needs one CAL to cover what they use and no more. Remember, you are licensing the USER, not the server, and since the user is still just one person, they need just one license.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
So the proper places to get this advice is from IT folks, not sales people. This is no different than any other IT guidance. For something simple like this, you should always have an ITSP to help with this stuff, one quick email would have sorted it out in seconds. But you also could just ask in ML.
For this you need...
- One licensed server (the 8 two core licenses listed, assuming you have no more than sixteen cores on the box.)
- 80 Windows Server 2016 User CALs to be able to use the server
- 80 RDS User CALs to be able to use the terminal server feature (called RDS)
So do I only need one User CAL per user in my environment, for the highest version of Windows Server that I have?
That is correct. If you are adding Windows Server 2016, then with the first server that you add you need one User CAL for every user in the company (unless you can make a great case that someone could never use any Windows resource ever.) So if you have 100 employees, and one server, you need 100 CALs. Add three more servers, no more CALs. Add one hundred new servers next year, still no more CALs. Each user needs one CAL to cover what they use and no more. Remember, you are licensing the USER, not the server, and since the user is still just one person, they need just one license.
Ok, that makes sense, but why do we have to license users again for adding the RDS role? Would I need to license all of them again if I added any other role?
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
Easiest to ask in ML. But @NTG has been doing this for a long time. As has @Bundy-Associates and others in the community. Licensing is quick and easy, not something you need more than a thread for. And sometimes that turns up good info about licensing that someone knows a trick to.
ok. Thanks Scott. I appreciate the help.
The only issue I have asking for help here, it seems, is that threads often times get deviated because people immediately start questioning why things are the way they are in an environment. I don't mind that so much, and I appreciate the valuable input, but sometimes it's really frustrating when it's every little thing that's being questioned. And I'm sure that if I list my licensing needs, people will start questioning why I need this or that when I should be doing it some other way.. That being said, i will still make a post at some point here..
Well, look at it this way... it was only by questioning every little thing that made me ask why your users weren't licensed to use Windows Server. What seems like "questioning every little thing" is how IT works. You can't do IT without that. If we didn't, we'd answer what is asked rather than what is meant or what is needed.
Sometimes you really do know exactly what you need and why and the extra questions are annoying. But when that is the case, generally answering the questions is quick and simple. If you don't already know the answers, then probably you aren't confident (or shouldn't be) as to what you are asking and all the clarifications and questioning are far more valuable than the answer to the initial questions.
Yeah, I understand. I really shouldn't complain... you guys really help me out a lot. I've learned so much that I've realized that I almost don't know anything at all..
Even when an individual question ends up being something that you already knew and had right, it's likely not a wasted conversation. Seeing the things that people are thinking, considering, or worried about can be educational even if it doesn't apply to you at the time. It also teaches you, in theory, ways to present information more completely from the beginning so as to make the process more straightforward.
In many cases, the reason that so many questions get asked is because there is either information missing or, and this is always tough to deal with, something seems likely to be a mistake based on nothing more than trends, and people worry that you will make it. This last one is tough because it feels like people are implying that you've missed something when nothing you've said shows that you have; but we all know that these things get missed so often, that we can't skip over mentioning it. And the logic is, if you realized how often that mistake is made, and you knew that you had it right, you'd mention why to speed things up.
Example:
I want to deploy RAID 5 on these old cheap 8TB SATA drives on a Drobo for our production server. What block size do I use?
If you post that alone, you will get endless explanations telling you to stop now and not to continue no matter what.
But, had you started with "I'm trying to induce failures to test how drives die with UREs, so I'm doing something dangerous on purpose" or "my boss is a moron and is forcing me to do this idiotic thing, but I can't talk him out of it" it would tell us both that you understood that this was crazy or unusual; and it would tell us that you had a reason that is nuts, but real, and needs to be followed regardless of the sanity or likeliness.
