question about setting up a new domain controller
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@pmoncho said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I got a quote from CDW for O365 for Exchange only (just for S&G) and for 75 users, it came to $10,800/year. You guys weren't kidding...
Yeah, CDW is a shit show. I would not deal with them, even for normal stuff. You can never trust them, their prices are all over the map. Get a good deal one day, totally screwed the next. It's not that they don't deliver what you buy, but the cost of overseeing the use of them is too high that you can't actually save money with them and they don't have any technical value. So if they aren't the cheapest, they are crap.
I am not saying that CDW is all that great but I have found they do offer me decent help when I need it. I know about their pricing issues and that is why I use Amazon, Ebay and Xbyte for some items.
At a recent CDW Security Event, I was surprised to hear them say their pricing will not be the cheapest but they hope the extra customer service and pre-sales tech support offer and advantage over competitors.
What CDW needs to do is figure out free shipping. I would probably order from them a lot more if they had free shipping because they have a warehouse pretty close and its like I get "free" next day shipping at regular shipping cost.
When I do find a product much cheaper elsewhere with free shipping, I don't even bother with CDW.
But isn't their "assistance" a huge negative? Their claim to fame is using their "technical resources" as sales people to screw customers. There isn't much I'd think that you could get from them that wasn't a negative. What "value add" are you seeing from them?
I mostly use Mangolassi and SW for help now but there have been times when working through MS licensing, and a few different pre-sale FW questions, CDW has been very helpful. Oh also, finding me a printer from different manufacturers to meet my requirements. Their pre-sales tech's have saved me a bunch of time in a couple different situations.
That is where I find the value with them. It is not often but it is there.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
CDW has no techs, only sales. So you can't use those services.
Maybe I got lucky a few times in speaking with the right person.
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@pmoncho said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
CDW has no techs, only sales. So you can't use those services.
Maybe I got lucky a few times in speaking with the right person.
The biggest question is... how do you know that you got lucky? If a sales person is really effective, they make you feel like you got good advice, even when getting sold to.
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@pmoncho said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I mostly use Mangolassi and SW for help now but there have been times when working through MS licensing, and a few different pre-sale FW questions, CDW has been very helpful. Oh also, finding me a printer from different manufacturers to meet my requirements. Their pre-sales tech's have saved me a bunch of time in a couple different situations.
That is where I find the value with them. It is not often but it is there.
Some things are easier than others. I've had people complain of CDW using their licensing advice to push unneeded licenses, though.
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I used to order from CDW when they were the cheapest and they were giving us free shipping. I heard my my predecessor that they are now requiring at least $200 orders.
I never talked to my rep, I would just email to get the shipping taken off a quote.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I got a quote from CDW for O365 for Exchange only (just for S&G) and for 75 users, it came to $10,800/year. You guys weren't kidding...
Yeah, CDW is a shit show. I would not deal with them, even for normal stuff. You can never trust them, their prices are all over the map. Get a good deal one day, totally screwed the next. It's not that they don't deliver what you buy, but the cost of overseeing the use of them is too high that you can't actually save money with them and they don't have any technical value. So if they aren't the cheapest, they are crap.
They don't pull anything with Windows server licensing do they? I ask because I've been getting some quotes from them for various upgrades and things for 2018. Things like Windows 10 Pro and Server 2016 licensing and terminal server CAL's, among other things..
I also have a VAR that we used to get licensing through but he's just... terrible.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I got a quote from CDW for O365 for Exchange only (just for S&G) and for 75 users, it came to $10,800/year. You guys weren't kidding...
Yeah, CDW is a shit show. I would not deal with them, even for normal stuff. You can never trust them, their prices are all over the map. Get a good deal one day, totally screwed the next. It's not that they don't deliver what you buy, but the cost of overseeing the use of them is too high that you can't actually save money with them and they don't have any technical value. So if they aren't the cheapest, they are crap.
They don't pull anything with Windows server licensing do they?
They might. It's a very common place for sales people to tack on extra cost because people don't know what they need so there is huge money to be made in selling more than is necessary.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I also have a VAR that we used to get licensing through but he's just... terrible.
It's less about where you buy it, and more about how they advise you. Just make sure you know what you need, then you only need to verify the price.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I got a quote from CDW for O365 for Exchange only (just for S&G) and for 75 users, it came to $10,800/year. You guys weren't kidding...
Yeah, CDW is a shit show. I would not deal with them, even for normal stuff. You can never trust them, their prices are all over the map. Get a good deal one day, totally screwed the next. It's not that they don't deliver what you buy, but the cost of overseeing the use of them is too high that you can't actually save money with them and they don't have any technical value. So if they aren't the cheapest, they are crap.
They don't pull anything with Windows server licensing do they?
They might. It's a very common place for sales people to tack on extra cost because people don't know what they need so there is huge money to be made in selling more than is necessary.
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
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For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
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delete
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it (users are on thin clients). He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
We do not currently have any 2016 servers running in our environment (except one that is in evaluation)
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it. He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
Very much so, he's missed the most basic licensing that there is. You have no licensing for the use of Windows. You have licensing to install Windows, and to use an app that runs on top of it, but you have no licensing to use the operating system which means all of the licensing here is useless until you have that.
This is exactly the kind of things we hear from CDW all of the time - they want to make a quick sale and don't use people who have any idea about anything and just look up some prices under the pretense of being knowledgeable about something so that they can claim to be a VAR.
That Windows Server needs CALs is pretty basic stuff. I mean, even if you were the first customer this guy ever had, this is a pretty big miss. What is there to know about Windows licensing if he doesn't know that it requires CALs?
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In this particular case, the rep didn't try to overcharge you, it would seem. But he didn't do you any favours, either. He might have zero clue about Windows, or he might have been trying to keep the pricing low enough that you wouldn't balk at buying from him. Maybe he thought that selling you only half the licenses would make his rate seem cheaper than a competitor. Hard to know what he was playing at, but you couldn't have provided a better example of why sales people are never ever to be used as advisers; even the simplest thing that he could have to do, he blatantly screwed up and it was your demo example as well!
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
For example, here is licensing for Server 2016 and 80 user CALs (it's for a terminal server)
No Server CALs listed, you already have those for 2016?
I explained to the rep that I wanted licensing for Server 2016 which would be a terminal server, and 80 user CAL's, to cover the users that will be connecting to it. He did ask if I wanted user or device CALs, and I said user. Is there more to this?
Very much so, he's missed the most basic licensing that there is. You have no licensing for the use of Windows. You have licensing to install Windows, and to use an app that runs on top of it, but you have no licensing to use the operating system which means all of the licensing here is useless until you have that.
This is exactly the kind of things we hear from CDW all of the time - they want to make a quick sale and don't use people who have any idea about anything and just look up some prices under the pretense of being knowledgeable about something so that they can claim to be a VAR.
That Windows Server needs CALs is pretty basic stuff. I mean, even if you were the first customer this guy ever had, this is a pretty big miss. What is there to know about Windows licensing if he doesn't know that it requires CALs?
ok, so how many Server CALs do I need in this case? I did kind of try and ask him if I needed CALs for the server (In my own ignorant way) and I think the discussion went in the direction of getting either user or device cals.
This is very freaking frustrating. I know I need to sit down and re-read how server licensing works so I make sure I understand it. I should also find someone who can help me with this too..
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
ok, then, should I simply go direct through MS to purchase licensing myself? How do you do it? I don't want to waste my company's money by purchasing from a seller that has high prices, but I also want help in purchasing the correct server licensing.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I did have to call and ask for help understanding the necessary licenses needed to make sure I was getting properly licensed.
So the proper places to get this advice is from IT folks, not sales people. This is no different than any other IT guidance. For something simple like this, you should always have an ITSP to help with this stuff, one quick email would have sorted it out in seconds. But you also could just ask in ML.
For this you need...
- One licensed server (the 8 two core licenses listed, assuming you have no more than sixteen cores on the box.)
- 80 Windows Server 2016 User CALs to be able to use the server
- 80 RDS User CALs to be able to use the terminal server feature (called RDS)
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Well I mean, I've told my sales rep exactly what I need as far as licensing goes. They can't charge more for actual Windows Server licensing units, can they?
Oh of course. They are a reseller. They can charge as much as they want. Anything they can get you to pay. 5% more, 1,000% more... literally anything that they can get you to pay, they are allowed to charge.
ok, then, should I simply go direct through MS to purchase licensing myself? How do you do it? I don't want to waste my company's money, but I also want help in purchasing the correct server licensing.
Buying from a VAR is fine. Totally fine. The only issue is asking them what you need. It's rare that they either care to get it right (it's not in their interest normally) nor do they often know enough to get it right (they are not IT people, they are sales people, this isn't what they know how to do.) Using CDW is fine as long as you verify the price and don't let them lead you astray; which they will try to do.
