Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
For example, drinking alcohol might be bad for you alone, but might encourage more social behaviour or happen coincidentally with more social behaviour, which might lead to better health. It's not the alcohol doing it, but the things associated with the alcohol like social or food choices might outweight the alcohol risks making it background noise.
I'd think logic says that the mindset of not drinking alcohol promotes better health habits.
Logic might say that, but if that is the case (I don't agree) then it suggests that it is the alcohol itself creating the healthy benefits!
No, it's the awareness of alcohol being bad. Alcohol itself no. If you know it's bad, then you are more likely to be health conscious, as you are purposely taking steps to be healthier. Such as taking other steps or actions in addition to alcohol abstinence.
If you drink alcohol, you're more likely to care less about health... I can name so many examples.
I feel like that's more an American concept. I think a lot of the healthy world, whether European or Asian or whatever, tend to spend less time worried about health options. Like in Italy, I never met people worried about getting healthy food, yet ate realy healthily all the time because their food options were good and their food traditions were insanely healthy compared to what we get in the US. but there weren't "organic sections" at the grocery stores, but all the food was super healthy.
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
That's quoting the same article, though. A better write up, but not an additional source.
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PopSci has some weird statements like this... "A single unit of alcohol a day (less than a half a glass of wine) was associated with the lowest risk of dementia, and other negative effects on health. But as Welch points out, contrary to some popular beliefs, the study indicated that those relatively safe sips of alcohol had no significant health benefits."
So, while alcohol is associated with the lowest risks, it has no significant benefits? Which is it? I consider being in the lowest risk pool for dementia a significant benefit, even if the authors of the article think that dementia is a trivial thing.
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And this... "Does this mean that anyone who has a few drinks a week is at risk for brain damage? Not necessarily."
Okay, so not all people are even at risk from alcohol. This means that according to this study, if you are in the right gene pool or whatever, it is completely safe at correct amounts - debunking the titles and claims they try to promote to get more views.
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This is better than red wine...
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Also, and this is SUPER important: "This was an observational study—researchers didn't run a controlled experiment, instead relying on data collected as patients went about their normal lives."
No control group, this wasn't a scientific study. There is no science here, just some casual observations that don't conflict with what we already knew - that moderate wine consumption has health benefits that most of us, but not the authors, feel are significant.
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What this study has shown, and the only thing that it has shown, is that the British government is using non-scientific studies to make claims it has no business to be making. It should let scientists do the science, politicians have no place here.
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If the only goals are Resveratrol and antioxidents (or is it an antioxidant itself?) then things like pomegranites and just grapes are better than red wine. But there are benefits associated with the alcohol itself that those lack.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
If the only goals are Resveratrol and antioxidents (or is it an antioxidant itself?) then things like pomegranites and just grapes are better than red wine. But there are benefits associated with the alcohol itself that those lack.
Then, where is your scientific proof that alcohol itself is good. Meaning, not consumed with something that is good such as grapes for example, altering things.
There would need to be a study done with pure alcohol. Not something bad plus something to cover it up, or show benefits while not looking for the potential bad.
Example, with wine they may see the benefits caused by the grapes, but miss the altered DNA or brain issues caused by alcohol. Or mix the benefits of wine with effects of alcohol.
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If someone asks you how to be healthy, would you seriously refer them to alcohol above the thousands of better choices?
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
If someone asks you how to be healthy, would you seriously refer them to alcohol above the thousands of better choices?
ABOVE other choices, perhaps not. In addition to them, certainly!
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I would not tell people to eat crap, stop exercising... but be sure to drink moderately. That would only make sense if alcohol was SO healthy that it overrode everything else.
But we know that broccoli is healthy (I trust no one is going to argue here), yet no matter how healthy broccoli is, we wouldn't recommend it "over thousands of other options" either, right? No one thing (other than eating well and exercising and having a low stress life and being born with good genes - and even that is four things) is so important to do it over and above all else.
Alcohol doesn't have to be "the healthiest thing in the world" to be "healthy."
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I would not tell people to eat crap, stop exercising... but be sure to drink moderately. That would only make sense if alcohol was SO healthy that it overrode everything else.
But we know that broccoli is healthy (I trust no one is going to argue here), yet no matter how healthy broccoli is, we wouldn't recommend it "over thousands of other options" either, right? No one thing (other than eating well and exercising and having a low stress life and being born with good genes - and even that is four things) is so important to do it over and above all else.
Alcohol doesn't have to be "the healthiest thing in the world" to be "healthy."
I don't see anything saying that alcohol alone is healthy. Only when it's added to something that is already very healthy (red wine / grape juice for example). It's like adding a drop of gasoline to your orange juice and saying "oh look how healthy gasoline is", (pointing out all the benefits drinking orange juice can have).
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@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I would not tell people to eat crap, stop exercising... but be sure to drink moderately. That would only make sense if alcohol was SO healthy that it overrode everything else.
But we know that broccoli is healthy (I trust no one is going to argue here), yet no matter how healthy broccoli is, we wouldn't recommend it "over thousands of other options" either, right? No one thing (other than eating well and exercising and having a low stress life and being born with good genes - and even that is four things) is so important to do it over and above all else.
Alcohol doesn't have to be "the healthiest thing in the world" to be "healthy."
I don't see anything saying that alcohol alone is healthy. Only when it's added to something that is already very healthy (red wine / grape juice for example). It's like adding a drop of gasoline to your orange juice and saying "oh look how healthy gasoline is", (pointing out all the benefits drinking orange juice can have).
http://www.medicaldaily.com/7-health-benefits-drinking-alcohol-247552
It's out there. Mayo Clinic above, Medical Daily, etc. The alcohol benefits are just over overshadowed by the benefits of what is with it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@tim_g said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
@scottalanmiller said in Red Wine is good for you: Myth busted!:
I would not tell people to eat crap, stop exercising... but be sure to drink moderately. That would only make sense if alcohol was SO healthy that it overrode everything else.
But we know that broccoli is healthy (I trust no one is going to argue here), yet no matter how healthy broccoli is, we wouldn't recommend it "over thousands of other options" either, right? No one thing (other than eating well and exercising and having a low stress life and being born with good genes - and even that is four things) is so important to do it over and above all else.
Alcohol doesn't have to be "the healthiest thing in the world" to be "healthy."
I don't see anything saying that alcohol alone is healthy. Only when it's added to something that is already very healthy (red wine / grape juice for example). It's like adding a drop of gasoline to your orange juice and saying "oh look how healthy gasoline is", (pointing out all the benefits drinking orange juice can have).
http://www.medicaldaily.com/7-health-benefits-drinking-alcohol-247552
It's out there. Mayo Clinic above, Medical Daily, etc. The alcohol benefits are just over overshadowed by the benefits of what is with it.
It looks like you didn't follow the references all the way through.
I looked at one just as an example, "lower risk of cardiovascular disease (high blood pressure)" and followed it all the way to the study. It's based on this:
Abstract BACKGROUND: Moderate alcohol consumption decreases the risk of coronary heart disease, but its relation to peripheral arterial disease (PAD) is uncertain. METHODS AND RESULTS: In the Physicians' Health Study, a randomized trial of the use of aspirin and beta-carotene in 22071 apparently healthy men, we documented 433 incident cases of PAD during 11 years of follow-up. After we controlled for age and treatment assignment, daily drinkers (> or = 7 drinks per week) had a relative risk (RR) of PAD of 0.92 (95% confidence interval, 0.72 to 1.17) compared with the reference group (< 1 drink per week). After additional control for smoking, however, the RR was 0.68 (0.52 to 0.89). Further control for exercise, diabetes mellitus, and parental history of myocardial infarction revealed an RR of 0.74 (0.57 to 0.97). CONCLUSIONS: Moderate alcohol consumption appears to decrease the risk of PAD in apparently healthy men.This is basing the results on the drink they had, not the alcohol itself. For all we know they had their alcohol in red wine and orange juice... which are known to help with this stuff.
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Based on less than 7 drinks per week...? Nothing to do with alcohol alone.
If i had 7 non alcoholic drinks of red wine or pomegranate juice per week... i'm sure that would still apply.
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Everything in the articles you post are saying "alcohol" but they are not. They are based on otherwise healthy drinks that contain alcohol. Nothing on alcohol alone.
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Yeah I followed your other link too... same thing.
Conclusion is that alcohol is still bad, but the drinks it's in is still providing the health benefits.
You get people injecting or drinking pure alcohol, all that goes out the door.
