Helpdesk/Training Department
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@mike-davis said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
You can spend a lot of money improving your SLA, but if your users don't care, there is not a business case for it.
They do care, retention is low because of this; improvement of helpdesk and training will give a much better user experience and aid retention.
Are they concerned about SLA or about service level? Very different things.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@mike-davis said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
You can spend a lot of money improving your SLA, but if your users don't care, there is not a business case for it.
They do care, retention is low because of this; improvement of helpdesk and training will give a much better user experience and aid retention.
Are they concerned about SLA or about service level? Very different things.
What do you mean? Im meaning the availability of helpdesk and the SLA of those personnel to the client. For example; gaurantee that they will get a response from a helpdesk person within 2 business hours etc
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@mike-davis said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
You can spend a lot of money improving your SLA, but if your users don't care, there is not a business case for it.
They do care, retention is low because of this; improvement of helpdesk and training will give a much better user experience and aid retention.
Are they concerned about SLA or about service level? Very different things.
What do you mean? Im meaning the availability of helpdesk and the SLA of those personnel to the client. For example; gaurantee that they will get a response from a helpdesk person within 2 business hours etc
SLA is a contract that says what happens when they don't make it in two hours. SL is whether they actually make it in two hours or not. SLAs often undermine service levels. As a customer, I want best effort, not an SLA. SLA just limits the penalties on the vendor for not meeting the SLA, it doesn't make things better, it normally makes things worse.
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For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver. But, I dont see a one size fits all. Generally, people are happy with what they have but should they want to have something above and beyond gauranteed, we need to charge. So, if it fair to have a list of different plans that we would gaurantee for different costs...
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This isnt so much 'website is down' or 'cant login'. The training/helpdesk are along the lines of 'can you show me how to...' type questions/help. If you have a question, and have purchased premium helpdesk, we will answer within x etc
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver.
You are describing an SLO, not an SLA.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver.
You are describing an SLO, not an SLA.
Do you think its reasonable to charge for different levels?
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver.
You are describing an SLO, not an SLA.
Do you think its reasonable to charge for different levels?
Of course, but you'd manage that via SLO. SLA is a very adversarial tool, SLO is not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver.
You are describing an SLO, not an SLA.
Do you think its reasonable to charge for different levels?
Of course, but you'd manage that via SLO. SLA is a very adversarial tool, SLO is not.
Do you have an example SLO? I've just had a very quick look online and most sites are saying something to the tune of SLAs being made up of SLOs that are being gauranteed... if you have an example to hand that would be appreciated...
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
For example, an SLA is what makes the ISP not have to fix your outage right away - because they have no reason to do anything faster than the SLA. And in many cases the SLA limits damages and makes it not worse fixes you at all.
Service level can be improved which will help overall. Having an SLA in place which gives customer a level of service that we gaurantee is useful as they then know what to expect, and we know what to deliver.
You are describing an SLO, not an SLA.
Do you think its reasonable to charge for different levels?
Of course, but you'd manage that via SLO. SLA is a very adversarial tool, SLO is not.
Do you have an example SLO? I've just had a very quick look online and most sites are saying something to the tune of SLAs being made up of SLOs that are being gauranteed... if you have an example to hand that would be appreciated...
It's the guarantees that are the problem. The issue with an SLA is that you leave the world of "we will do the best that we can" and move to "We only have to do X, and if we don't, here is the most that you can complain about it." SLOs are about working together on a plan. SLAs are about making sure you don't have to do the best that you can.
Think of it like networking.... best effort is like QoS. SLA is like reserved limits - everyone loses.
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Here is an example of an SLA....
- We guarantee that we will respond in two days.
Here is what results...
- Tech sits idle for two days and then responds at the last second. There is no reason to respond faster, but there is incentive not to respond faster because you don't want the customer expecting something better than the SLA guarantees. If you miss the two day window, the SLA's purpose is to limit the customer's options for recourse.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Here is an example of an SLA....
- We guarantee that we will respond in two days.
Here is what results...
- Tech sits idle for two days and then responds at the last second. There is no reason to respond faster, but there is incentive not to respond faster because you don't want the customer expecting something better than the SLA guarantees. If you miss the two day window, the SLA's purpose is to limit the customer's options for recourse.
Yes, that makes sense. Using an example though... the SLA to the customer for 'standard, free, part of the normal subscription' support could be 'We will respond in two days.'. Internally however, the help desk KPIs, what their job is based on, could be to make sure all calls/requests are answered within two hours. By sitting idle for two days, they do not meet their target and it risks their jobs. However, from the customers POV we're going waaaay above and beyond as they expected everything within two days, but were meeting two hours... For customers that pay premium for gauranteed within 2 hours, their requests would come first so from their POV, they are still getting what they pay for and now are making some money back from providing the helpdesk function...
If call rate expands, those free support users may get a reply in 4 hours, or a day etc, but its still way within their expected timeframe. The paid customers will be gauranteed the response...
Is that not a fair way?
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Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
How do you guarantee the two hours, though? If you could do that before with best effort, what's the need for the guarantee? If you can't do it without it, how does the SLA make it viable?
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Here is an example of an SLA....
- We guarantee that we will respond in two days.
Here is what results...
- Tech sits idle for two days and then responds at the last second. There is no reason to respond faster, but there is incentive not to respond faster because you don't want the customer expecting something better than the SLA guarantees. If you miss the two day window, the SLA's purpose is to limit the customer's options for recourse.
Yes, that makes sense. Using an example though... the SLA to the customer for 'standard, free, part of the normal subscription' support could be 'We will respond in two days.'. Internally however, the help desk KPIs, what their job is based on, could be to make sure all calls/requests are answered within two hours. By sitting idle for two days, they do not meet their target and it risks their jobs. However, from the customers POV we're going waaaay above and beyond as they expected everything within two days, but were meeting two hours... For customers that pay premium for gauranteed within 2 hours, their requests would come first so from their POV, they are still getting what they pay for and now are making some money back from providing the helpdesk function...
If call rate expands, those free support users may get a reply in 4 hours, or a day etc, but its still way within their expected timeframe. The paid customers will be gauranteed the response...
Is that not a fair way?
SLA tells nothing of what is expected, it tells at what point they have recourse against you. SLA tells nothing of what you strive to do, only what you strive to avoid.
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@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
How do you guarantee the two hours, though? If you could do that before with best effort, what's the need for the guarantee? If you can't do it without it, how does the SLA make it viable?
The gaurante of doing it is what they pay for as part of that package...
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
How do you guarantee the two hours, though? If you could do that before with best effort, what's the need for the guarantee? If you can't do it without it, how does the SLA make it viable?
The gaurante of doing it is what they pay for as part of that package...
But as Scott is saying, there is no guarantee. All they have is what they receive when you don’t meet the SLA, like a refund etc.
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@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
How do you guarantee the two hours, though? If you could do that before with best effort, what's the need for the guarantee? If you can't do it without it, how does the SLA make it viable?
The gaurante of doing it is what they pay for as part of that package...
That means nothing, though. I'm literally asking how you will do it. Guaranteeing something isn't as simle as saying it. You have to come up with a means of ensuring that you can always meet that requirement.
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@dashrender said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@scottalanmiller said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
@jimmy9008 said in Helpdesk/Training Department:
Generally we'd want to exceed the expected service by far, but in the case where a customer wants it solid fixed they could pay for the gauranteed 2 hour window etc
How do you guarantee the two hours, though? If you could do that before with best effort, what's the need for the guarantee? If you can't do it without it, how does the SLA make it viable?
The gaurante of doing it is what they pay for as part of that package...
But as Scott is saying, there is no guarantee. All they have is what they receive when you don’t meet the SLA, like a refund etc.
Exactly, guarantee is a meaningless term here.
