What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
how physically is the human ear aided by the additional channels that sit between the left and right speakers.
its the separation of sound. the soundstage effect
Exactly. Soundstating is the exact reason that you want only two speakers. Two speakers up front give you an unbroken, completely fluid soundstage. A center speaker guarantees that this won't be completely fluid, it's impossible to make the center speaker completely invisible on the sound stage because it cannot identically match the other front speakers. This is the core issue that makes the center impossible to compete, you can't get the flawless soundstage with it interrupting the right and left channels.
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
How does the sound quality physically improve when the same audio is sent from an extra source,
i don't understand what your asking here. for one, you can't measure sound quality, only the resolution of the source. after that its pretty much preference.
Preference is "what I want it to sound like." Hi Fi is about "reproducing the source as closely as possible." So you can certainly meansure quality.
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
by separating the sound of voice into a different position our ears learn to recognize it and then prefer it.
Oh sure, no question there. But "prefered" sound isn't the same as quality. Preferred sounds come at the expense of quality.
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
it is highly subjective though as many people just prefer different types of sound.
Ah, I see what's happened. Everyone is talking about making "sounds people like to hear". I'm talking about audiophilia and "reproducing the original as closely as possible and creating a solid soundstage - consistency." These two things are always at odds.
Yes, if you want to make it sound "nice" instead of "accurate", then of course, lots of speakers might make sense for you.
If you want a solid, invisible sound stage as close to the original sound as possible, you want something different than you'd want in that case.
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Sorry for the quick lock, was just forking.
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
it does not mean anything negative about either type, its just preference. i have seen lots of people i have worked with who have been designing audio setups for churches and sound venues(20-30 years) who prefer pure stereo sound but others who have just as much experience in designing systems that prefer and like other setups. i have seen and talked with several in each category and what i have learned is it is too subjective to call one right and another wrong. everyone's ears and hearing capabilities are just too complex and different.
Right, you aren't talking about hi fi, you are talking about pro audio and other things. Those are not situations where you can even talk about doing hi fi, let alone would you want to. You aren't talking about one person in the perfect listening spot in the middle of the room. You aren't talking about wall treatments for audio.
Concert halls, for example, are designed to influence sound, to alter it. Hi fi is designed to reproduce accurately.
These are very different kinds of things.
You are right, one is not right and one is not wrong. But that's why I limited the scope of my point and none of those were included and don't apply to what we were discussing.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
it is highly subjective though as many people just prefer different types of sound.
Ah, I see what's happened. Everyone is talking about making "sounds people like to hear". I'm talking about audiophilia and "reproducing the original as closely as possible and creating a solid soundstage - consistency." These two things are always at odds.
Yes, if you want to make it sound "nice" instead of "accurate", then of course, lots of speakers might make sense for you.
If you want a solid, invisible sound stage as close to the original sound as possible, you want something different than you'd want in that case.
When you are watching TV or a movie, when would you ever want that? In person viewing of shows (live audience) often has horrible sounding sound. Sure it's what was really there, but that's not the desired effect for the real audience (aka the TV audience).
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
it is highly subjective though as many people just prefer different types of sound.
Ah, I see what's happened. Everyone is talking about making "sounds people like to hear". I'm talking about audiophilia and "reproducing the original as closely as possible and creating a solid soundstage - consistency." These two things are always at odds.
Yes, if you want to make it sound "nice" instead of "accurate", then of course, lots of speakers might make sense for you.
If you want a solid, invisible sound stage as close to the original sound as possible, you want something different than you'd want in that case.
When you are watching TV or a movie, when would you ever want that? In person viewing of shows (live audience) often has horrible sounding sound. Sure it's what was really there, but that's not the desired effect for the real audience (aka the TV audience).
Well not likely when watching a game show
But for most any movie. I don't set my home up for "walking around or large audiences" for watching movies. I tend to set it up for two people in the middle of the room well situated to get correct audio. I want a seamless experience. If I can tell that there are more speakers, it means that those speakers are not doing their job.Most people want lots of speakes and to hear each and every one discretely so that they can be excited about... well about owning speakers. That's literally why most people do it, they have no idea what those speakers are for. And most people can't set up a stereo properly, so they need those crutches to just make things work. And some people like my BIL literally have a theater at home with rows and different heights and people sitting far on the left and far on the right so needs to sacrifice quality to make everyone able to hear.
But for watching anything of any quality, when the option exists, and this includes video games, I want quality so that the entire experience is seemless and transparent. I want to feel like I'm there and experience the movie or the game, my goal isn't to "experience the speakers."
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Definitely a good goal - and one I consider pretty lofty for most folks who are going to read this thread.
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Definitely a good goal - and one I consider pretty lofty for most folks who are going to read this thread.
Hardly lofty, though, that's the thing. It's often cheaper. The surround sound multi-channel systems are designed to make everyone money - at your expense. If you avoid them, you can do hi fi for way less than the cost of a decent eight channel system. You need half as many speakers, half as many amps, etc. If you put 50% more into each component, you still save a ton.
If your goal is to make a large listening area for loads of people, it's totally impractical. If you are making a listening area for just one person, it's simpler and cheaper.
So the goal isn't lofty, in at least 50% of cases, it is also practical.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
So the goal isn't lofty, in at least 50% of cases, it is also practical.
Can you give us a parts list of what you would recommend? I was thinking about replacing my receiver with something that has HDMI inputs so I can switch between the DVD player and the kids gaming consoles.
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@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
So the goal isn't lofty, in at least 50% of cases, it is also practical.
Can you give us a parts list of what you would recommend? I was thinking about replacing my receiver with something that has HDMI inputs so I can switch between the DVD player and the kids gaming consoles.
Not likely parts, but maybe overall ideas. I'm a bit out of date. What's your room like? What will the setup need to fit into?
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The room is 11'x17' with the TV on the short wall. I have some Kenwood speakers and a Sony receiver that is 20 years old. The system sounds ok. I was going to just replace the receiver with something that has HDMI inputs instead of the RCA inputs my existing receiver has, then your post made me think there might be something else I should consider.
My main thing is something that any one can just turn on and use without having to press source buttons, etc. I had actually solved that problem years ago with a Logitech Harmony remote, but then the dog got ahold of it...
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@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
So the goal isn't lofty, in at least 50% of cases, it is also practical.
Can you give us a parts list of what you would recommend? I was thinking about replacing my receiver with something that has HDMI inputs so I can switch between the DVD player and the kids gaming consoles.
There's a parts list above in the thread already. The only thing missing is the speakers.
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@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
The room is 11'x17' with the TV on the short wall. I have some Kenwood speakers and a Sony receiver that is 20 years old. The system sounds ok. I was going to just replace the receiver with something that has HDMI inputs instead of the RCA inputs my existing receiver has, then your post made me think there might be something else I should consider.
My main thing is something that any one can just turn on and use without having to press source buttons, etc. I had actually solved that problem years ago with a Logitech Harmony remote, but then the dog got ahold of it...
How do you plan to get around pressing the source buttons since you're planning on having more than one source?
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
The room is 11'x17' with the TV on the short wall. I have some Kenwood speakers and a Sony receiver that is 20 years old. The system sounds ok. I was going to just replace the receiver with something that has HDMI inputs instead of the RCA inputs my existing receiver has, then your post made me think there might be something else I should consider.
My main thing is something that any one can just turn on and use without having to press source buttons, etc. I had actually solved that problem years ago with a Logitech Harmony remote, but then the dog got ahold of it...
How do you plan to get around pressing the source buttons since you're planning on having more than one source?
The Harmony remotes are really good for this type of thing. Expensive but they make really complex systems easy.
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
How do you plan to get around pressing the source buttons since you're planning on having more than one source?
I meant on the TV. So if the devices you want to use are on, you just press the button/turn the selector on the receiver and the audio matches the video. Right now the audio runs to the receiver and the video goes to the TV since my receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs and can't switch the video.
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@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
The room is 11'x17' with the TV on the short wall. I have some Kenwood speakers and a Sony receiver that is 20 years old. The system sounds ok. I was going to just replace the receiver with something that has HDMI inputs instead of the RCA inputs my existing receiver has, then your post made me think there might be something else I should consider.
My main thing is something that any one can just turn on and use without having to press source buttons, etc. I had actually solved that problem years ago with a Logitech Harmony remote, but then the dog got ahold of it...
And they just discontinued Harmony, too.
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@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
How do you plan to get around pressing the source buttons since you're planning on having more than one source?
I meant on the TV. So if the devices you want to use are on, you just press the button/turn the selector on the receiver and the audio matches the video. Right now the audio runs to the receiver and the video goes to the TV since my receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs and can't switch the video.
Ah yes, a decent receiver with full HDMI pass through is all you need there, make the receiver the "brains" of the system.
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@coliver said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@mike-davis said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
The room is 11'x17' with the TV on the short wall. I have some Kenwood speakers and a Sony receiver that is 20 years old. The system sounds ok. I was going to just replace the receiver with something that has HDMI inputs instead of the RCA inputs my existing receiver has, then your post made me think there might be something else I should consider.
My main thing is something that any one can just turn on and use without having to press source buttons, etc. I had actually solved that problem years ago with a Logitech Harmony remote, but then the dog got ahold of it...
How do you plan to get around pressing the source buttons since you're planning on having more than one source?
The Harmony remotes are really good for this type of thing. Expensive but they make really complex systems easy.
yeah, I've had 3 in the past 10+ years.
