Cell phones survey
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
http://musicphotolife.com/2014/07/nokia-lumia-930-review-a-better-windows-phone/
"Apps like “Gmail”, “YouTube”, “Google Search” do not come from Google. The only giveaway is the app developer name. Such is the problem with Windows Store: these big brands aren’t creating apps for Windows Phones, leaving a gap for these opportunistic app developers to take advantage of consumer naivety."
Here they act like the vendor name was always different. But they leave out that it was often only different by ways an end user could never know - like does Google use "Google", "Google Inc", "Google Corp" and so forth. Sometimes they were obvious if you paid attention. Sometimes, there was no way to know at all other than knowing that said vendor wasn't on that platform.
Understood, but more than 3 years ago before the release of Win10 Mobile, which is what this whole thing is about. IDGAF about anything prior, it's dog poo, and I'm glad I didn't have the misfortune of experiencing it.
Burned bridges are burned bridges. Have they taken steps to amend the lost faith? Or have they just depended on their customer base turning over and forgetting that they aren't to be trusted?
That you've not seen it doesn't imply it isn't there, just that they've made it less obvious to you or cleaned it up some. That's not the same as a public apology, making amends and taking actual steps towards prevention.
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From what I've seen, Microsoft is depending on short memories and new customers. This works because their mobile user base is so small. Effectively no one would have stayed with the Windows Phone from the era that I tested it. It was so bad that it was unthinkable to keep trying to get it working. So basically all modern users are new users, Microsoft got a fresh start and a chance to just act like the past didn't happen. I have a feeling that that is what they did.
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
http://musicphotolife.com/2014/07/nokia-lumia-930-review-a-better-windows-phone/
"Apps like “Gmail”, “YouTube”, “Google Search” do not come from Google. The only giveaway is the app developer name. Such is the problem with Windows Store: these big brands aren’t creating apps for Windows Phones, leaving a gap for these opportunistic app developers to take advantage of consumer naivety."
Here they act like the vendor name was always different. But they leave out that it was often only different by ways an end user could never know - like does Google use "Google", "Google Inc", "Google Corp" and so forth. Sometimes they were obvious if you paid attention. Sometimes, there was no way to know at all other than knowing that said vendor wasn't on that platform.
Understood, but more than 3 years ago before the release of Win10 Mobile, which is what this whole thing is about. IDGAF about anything prior, it's dog poo, and I'm glad I didn't have the misfortune of experiencing it.
Burned bridges are burned bridges. Have they taken steps to amend the lost faith? Or have they just depended on their customer base turning over and forgetting that they aren't to be trusted?
That you've not seen it doesn't imply it isn't there, just that they've made it less obvious to you or cleaned it up some. That's not the same as a public apology, making amends and taking actual steps towards prevention.
I care how it is now, when I use it. It's good and safe now, not at all how you think of it (anymore). So, I will use it. MS wants to make money from the store that's shared across all the Win10 based platforms. It's not what it was when Balmer was pushing that crap.
I
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
http://musicphotolife.com/2014/07/nokia-lumia-930-review-a-better-windows-phone/
"Apps like “Gmail”, “YouTube”, “Google Search” do not come from Google. The only giveaway is the app developer name. Such is the problem with Windows Store: these big brands aren’t creating apps for Windows Phones, leaving a gap for these opportunistic app developers to take advantage of consumer naivety."
Here they act like the vendor name was always different. But they leave out that it was often only different by ways an end user could never know - like does Google use "Google", "Google Inc", "Google Corp" and so forth. Sometimes they were obvious if you paid attention. Sometimes, there was no way to know at all other than knowing that said vendor wasn't on that platform.
Understood, but more than 3 years ago before the release of Win10 Mobile, which is what this whole thing is about. IDGAF about anything prior, it's dog poo, and I'm glad I didn't have the misfortune of experiencing it.
Burned bridges are burned bridges. Have they taken steps to amend the lost faith? Or have they just depended on their customer base turning over and forgetting that they aren't to be trusted?
That you've not seen it doesn't imply it isn't there, just that they've made it less obvious to you or cleaned it up some. That's not the same as a public apology, making amends and taking actual steps towards prevention.
I care how it is now, when I use it. It's good and safe now, not at all how you think of it (anymore). So, I will use it. MS wants to make money from the store that's shared across all the Win10 based platforms. It's not what it was when Balmer was pushing that crap.
I
I guess what I don't understand is...
- Now that you know that they were using their store as a way to trick customers, why do you think that they won't do that again. You've identified a bad actor working in a bad way. What makes you trust them now.
- Now that you know how they were doing this, you know that you can't be confident that they are not still doing it. Given that you can't trust your eyes, what makes you confident that things have actually changed rather than they've just improved how well they hide it?
I'm not saying they are still doing bad things. I'm saying that given their track record and behaviour, what makes you confident in them?
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
From what I've seen, Microsoft is depending on short memories and new customers. This works because their mobile user base is so small. Effectively no one would have stayed with the Windows Phone from the era that I tested it. It was so bad that it was unthinkable to keep trying to get it working. So basically all modern users are new users, Microsoft got a fresh start and a chance to just act like the past didn't happen. I have a feeling that that is what they did.
Yeah that sounds accurate.
Bridges can be rebuilt, you know. I feel it's worth while if you like the Win10 platform. It's definitely worth a test run now if you pass a MS store sometime.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
It's good and safe now, not at all how you think of it (anymore).
But could be at any second, and now you know that they are willing to do that.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
From what I've seen, Microsoft is depending on short memories and new customers. This works because their mobile user base is so small. Effectively no one would have stayed with the Windows Phone from the era that I tested it. It was so bad that it was unthinkable to keep trying to get it working. So basically all modern users are new users, Microsoft got a fresh start and a chance to just act like the past didn't happen. I have a feeling that that is what they did.
Yeah that sounds accurate.
Bridges can be rebuilt, you know. I feel it's worth while if you like the Win10 platform. It's definitely worth a test run now if you pass a MS store sometime.
Right, which is why I asked if they had rebuilt them, or left them burned. And what I'm hearing is, they left them burnt. They've done absolutely nothing, that I know of, to regain confidence or even apologize. They've worked to burn their old audience and depend on a new one that wasn't aware of the past.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
It's definitely worth a test run now if you pass a MS store sometime.
I've never seen one in person. I was referencing the MS Store on Windows 10, though. Not the box store. No idea what they sell there.
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I've also had to deal with the MS Surface recently, which is a totally different animal, but definitely shows a similar feeling towards their consumer customers as the old Windows Phone did. Totally different things, just ridiculously low quality and zero concern for making customers happy or giving them a working product. But an underlying "take advantage of the customers and just depend on new ones coming along" mentality that seems to remain. Churn and burn the customers, it's easier than treating them well. And many will forget how they were treated and come back anyway. It makes financial sense, for them to do it, and good sense for customers to have long memories.
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
http://musicphotolife.com/2014/07/nokia-lumia-930-review-a-better-windows-phone/
"Apps like “Gmail”, “YouTube”, “Google Search” do not come from Google. The only giveaway is the app developer name. Such is the problem with Windows Store: these big brands aren’t creating apps for Windows Phones, leaving a gap for these opportunistic app developers to take advantage of consumer naivety."
Here they act like the vendor name was always different. But they leave out that it was often only different by ways an end user could never know - like does Google use "Google", "Google Inc", "Google Corp" and so forth. Sometimes they were obvious if you paid attention. Sometimes, there was no way to know at all other than knowing that said vendor wasn't on that platform.
Understood, but more than 3 years ago before the release of Win10 Mobile, which is what this whole thing is about. IDGAF about anything prior, it's dog poo, and I'm glad I didn't have the misfortune of experiencing it.
Burned bridges are burned bridges. Have they taken steps to amend the lost faith? Or have they just depended on their customer base turning over and forgetting that they aren't to be trusted?
That you've not seen it doesn't imply it isn't there, just that they've made it less obvious to you or cleaned it up some. That's not the same as a public apology, making amends and taking actual steps towards prevention.
I care how it is now, when I use it. It's good and safe now, not at all how you think of it (anymore). So, I will use it. MS wants to make money from the store that's shared across all the Win10 based platforms. It's not what it was when Balmer was pushing that crap.
I
I guess what I don't understand is...
- Now that you know that they were using their store as a way to trick customers, why do you think that they won't do that again. You've identified a bad actor working in a bad way. What makes you trust them now.
- Now that you know how they were doing this, you know that you can't be confident that they are not still doing it. Given that you can't trust your eyes, what makes you confident that things have actually changed rather than they've just improved how well they hide it?
I'm not saying they are still doing bad things. I'm saying that given their track record and behaviour, what makes you confident in them?
Every big company is bad or has done questionable things whether purposely or by mistake. There are no guaranteeswith anyone. How can you use Apple? They are notorious for bad acting and hiding their horrible inhumane practices.
You can't pick and choose. I use the Microsoft products like Windows Server so I kind of have to trust they arent purposely infecting my phone with Malware, especially after already being in the spotlight with their app store screwup in the past.
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I wonder, though, how much we don't hear about fake apps is not because they are not there, but because there are so few customers. I actually thought that Microsoft had dropped their phone line earlier this year. I didn't know they were still supporting it at all. It's gone from a decently news worthy item to "can you buy that any more?" With so few users, and the remaining ones being naturally filtered to only those that are very loyal and/or happy and/or don't realize that there are issues it would not be surprising for the old news of the fake apps to have simply lost steam.
It could easily be like Lenovo. Does Lenovo no longer spy on their customers, steal their data or do other illegal things? I'm sure that they continue like they always have, but unlike several years ago, no one using Lenovo today cares about those things and likes them regardless of that. And everyone that is upset with Lenovo is tired of hearing the news because we've all already moved on.
So that news of it has stopped is expected regardless of if the trend remains or changed. That it has changed enough to not be overwhelmingly obvious, sure that seems likely if you aren't seeing it, but that you didn't know that it was what the store was known for - can you honestly say that that all those apps that you are not installing are really from the vendors that they should be?
Apps for IT pros are far less likely to be ones targeted than ones for teenages or whatever.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
Every big company is bad or has done questionable things whether purposely or by mistake. There are no guaranteeswith anyone. How can you use Apple? They are notorious for bad acting and hiding their horrible inhumane practices.
Give me an example of where Apple has treated me or any customer of mine in this way? You know that Lenovo and Microsoft did this to people you know. Has Apple? This is new news to me. What has Apple done? I really dislike Apple as a company, but I've not heard about this before.
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@scottalanmiller said in Cell phones survey:
I wonder, though, how much we don't hear about fake apps is not because they are not there, but because there are so few customers. I actually thought that Microsoft had dropped their phone line earlier this year. I didn't know they were still supporting it at all. It's gone from a decently news worthy item to "can you buy that any more?" With so few users, and the remaining ones being naturally filtered to only those that are very loyal and/or happy and/or don't realize that there are issues it would not be surprising for the old news of the fake apps to have simply lost steam.
It could easily be like Lenovo. Does Lenovo no longer spy on their customers, steal their data or do other illegal things? I'm sure that they continue like they always have, but unlike several years ago, no one using Lenovo today cares about those things and likes them regardless of that. And everyone that is upset with Lenovo is tired of hearing the news because we've all already moved on.
So that news of it has stopped is expected regardless of if the trend remains or changed. That it has changed enough to not be overwhelmingly obvious, sure that seems likely if you aren't seeing it, but that you didn't know that it was what the store was known for - can you honestly say that that all those apps that you are not installing are really from the vendors that they should be?
Apps for IT pros are far less likely to be ones targeted than ones for teenages or whatever.
I think Win10 mobile is going to die soon and be replaced with the "surface phone" platform.... Actual Win10 on phone devices.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
You can't pick and choose. I use the Microsoft products like Windows Server so I kind of have to trust they arent purposely infecting my phone with Malware, especially after already being in the spotlight with their app store screwup in the past.
I'm unclear what you are saying here. Are you picking and choosing, or choosing to ignore? You "have to trust that they are not doing something" that we know tha they did. It wasn't a screwup, that we know. You are downplaying a very serious activity. They made money peddling malware. It was news for years, everyone knew it and they kept doing it because it was bringing in money.
I get that we can "pick and choose" a little and say that the Windows Mobile group is effectively a different company from Windows Servers, because it is. Even legally it is separated. The Windows Server group won't go down that path. But that their phone group won't do it again or isn't doing it now? We have zero reason to think that based on everything that we know.
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@tim_g said in Cell phones survey:
I think Win10 mobile is going to die soon and be replaced with the "surface phone" platform.... Actual Win10 on phone devices.
That sounds even worse. At least the Windows Phones used to have working hardware. Surface is like a code word for "DOA."
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I'm going to start calling hardware that has died "surfaced."
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Article where Microsoft claimed to be taking action, you'll notice that the final posts are a year later pointing out that Microsoft's initiative to clean up the store and deal with known fake apps was a lie. MS never followed up.
How long have you been using the Windows Phone platform to have confidence in it? Sounds like if it got cleaned up, it must have just happened recently. Recently enough that no one seems to be aware of it. I can't find references to it being fixed.
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Trying to find a reference to this being fixed other than you saying so, but I'm struggling to do so. I'm finding some nice articles, though.
https://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cesspool-of-scams-why-doesnt-microsoft-care/
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Here is an article talking about how Microsoft actually paid developers for fake apps for the Windows 10 Store.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-windows-store-less-mess/
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So, you asked for proof when you thought that I was crazy. I'll do the same. Now that we've established beyond any doubt that what we had seen was widely known, even admitted to by MS, and rampant the onus shifts and now the question is... did it get fixed and if so, when? I'm struggling to find any information from any source that shows that the issues were actually fixed. That you didn't know that there was this problem, and we know it was there recently, it's reasonable for us to assume that the issue still exists and that you just did not identify it. It can't be as bad, it would be impossible to use the phone if it hadn't improved some, but that it has actually been fixed seems very unlikely and pushing impossible. To have had it been so bad for three years, then have it miraculously fixed silently with no one talking about it? Seems reasonably unlikely.
