Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist
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@Dashrender said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
I think Scott's question is pre university. This is also ultimately why university is nearly useless to IT folks.
University isn't useless. I know that I rail against it a lot, but university can be great. What it is specifically bad for is for getting you a job or increasing your income. Those aren't its purpose. University is to broaden your thinking and prepare you for many different things in life. It is absolutely not supposed to prepare you for a specific job (that's a trade school) and as a by product of that, it has no intention of and little hope of increasing your lifetime earnings. That's not why you go to university. So university retains the value that it always had, but people today just see value in nothing but money and see it as bad.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@Dashrender said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
I think Scott's question is pre university. This is also ultimately why university is nearly useless to IT folks.
This topic is going to require a different post eventually, but do you think somebody needs to remarket IT to be more of a skill/trade instead of a career?
What's the difference?
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@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
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@Dashrender said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
I'm not sure when going to college meant that you were learning job skills that you would walk out of School and directly into a good paying job - that's what internships are for.
It never meant that. It never used to teach direct skills whatsoever. That's why people got degrees in letters and things like that. Clearly not a job skill. That schools even offer degrees in things like IT is pretty wrong. What does a BS in IT even really mean? IT would require, at a trade level, way more than a BS can teach even if focused. IT would be graduate work, like five years of work after getting a BS. Like a medical doctor. You can't get a four year degree in being a doctor or a lawyer! Why can you in IT?
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@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
Wait what? Every university/college I have talked to that has an IT program is predominantly Windows and Cisco based. Microsoft has some great deals for education and it is the "market" leader as many professors I've talked to profess. I have a fairly large sample size but it's limited to two states at this point in time.
Deals that actually produce income! And MS Provides the course materials.
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@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
Wait what? Every university/college I have talked to that has an IT program is predominantly Windows and Cisco based. Microsoft has some great deals for education and it is the "market" leader as many professors I've talked to profess. I have a fairly large sample size but it's limited to two states at this point in time.
I never used Cisco in my classes. If anything, they taught me the basics of routing, but was agnostic about the network environment. Pretty much they went from "Okay, you know how to subnet. Lets get into WAN management" and that was it.
Unless you go to Dreamspark to download your software as a student, you only get the 6-month license and that will last for only a couple of classes.
Dreamspark is very inexpensive to colleges. But that's not really where you would be using it. Most lab environments in multiple colleges were Microsoft based. Even the sysadmin labs are almost 100% Microsoft.. due to Microsoft basically giving away licenses to college for academic purposes.
Well that sucks, because mine wasn't that way.
That's unfortunate, kind of. The school I went to had professors who were at one point IT managers back in the day. So they weren't as up-to-date with the tech as they thought. It was myself and a few other students who really pushed them to teach new material. I guess if you're teaching just the basics then you wouldn't need to update the technology constantly.
Correct, if they were teaching properly from the beginning, there is little need to be up to date. But because they try to cheap out and teach rudimentary trade skills they need to stay up to date and burn themselves. But students keep paying, so what do they care.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
It can happen, but I've attended many colleges, taught at others, sat on the board of others, work with them all of the time and trust me, Windows dominates. Sure there are exceptions, that's one of the problems with college work is that unless you do something specific to expose yourself to many colleges in different areas you have no idea what the comparative market is like. Each college is so unique that some people think college is hard, some thing it is easy, some think it is time consuming, some sleep through it...
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@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
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This is a great example of how far off professors often are. Using Windows to teach Linux because they didn't realize that Windows wasn't Linux!
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@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
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@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
Team up with Mike Rowe and create MangoU has an IT Trade school for the different facets of IT. You want to be a programmer? Take this course. You want to go into networking? Go into this program.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
Team up with Mike Rowe and create MangoU has an IT Trade school for the different facets of IT. You want to be a programmer? Take this course. You want to go into networking? Go into this program.
How valuable is that really? The people who need structured courses to learn are most likely going to have a very hard time with a fluid IT environment. I think most people could benefit from an internship long before they would benefit from a structured course.
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@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
Team up with Mike Rowe and create MangoU has an IT Trade school for the different facets of IT. You want to be a programmer? Take this course. You want to go into networking? Go into this program.
How valuable is that really? The people who need structured courses to learn are most likely going to have a very hard time with a fluid IT environment. I think most people could benefit from an internship long before they would benefit from a structured course.
I agree, while part of me would LOVE to work on a structured learning school for IT and have certainly considered doing it... the majority of people in IT need to work their own way up and learn things on their own. But providing a guide so that people know what it takes to be considered "viable" as a baseline is a place to start.
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@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
Team up with Mike Rowe and create MangoU has an IT Trade school for the different facets of IT. You want to be a programmer? Take this course. You want to go into networking? Go into this program.
How valuable is that really? The people who need structured courses to learn are most likely going to have a very hard time with a fluid IT environment. I think most people could benefit from an internship long before they would benefit from a structured course.
Okay, so how about some kind of work/study program? Team the student up with half a day in the field, behind a helpdesk or something and the other half in school. The time they spend in the field pays for the schooling with maybe a little extra for themselves plus a 2nd job to live or something.
I'm not married to one solution. Just like love, IT will find a way.
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@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@coliver said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@NerdyDad said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
@alex.olynyk said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Group Policy, sorry thats vendor specific
Yes, and higher end. Very systems admin focused. Think what we'd expect from someone who wanted to enter university.
But coming from somebody that went through college, they are only going to teach you theory and principles and nothing too much vendor specific. If they do teach something vendor centric, then it will more than likely be Linux-based at it is easier to get your hands on (legitimately anyways) and deploy while sticking with the principle/theory.
VERY much the opposite. Windows and Cisco are taught at university 10:1 over Linux. They are PAID to be sales people for those vendors. And universities can't afford to hire Linux skills, but Microsoft and Cisco are a dime a dozen. So they teach whatever professors are unemployed on the market at the time.
College should only teach theory and principles. And that's all we are looking for here. If a college teaches hands on useful stuff, it's violating its mandate (outside of using them to demonstrate theory.)
I NEVER had a MS lab with servers or Hyper-V or anything. If I touched Linux, then it was through Cygwin. That was it. Otherwise, it was theory and principles.
How do you "touch Linux" through cygwin? Cygwin is an application layer for Windows only.
The only point of using Cygwin was to teach on how Linux's file systemS are different than Windows.
But Cygwin sees the Windows NTFS filesystem, not a Linux one. There is no Linux, at all, with Cygwin. What the heck did they think that they were showing to you?
And I barely made a B in the class because the teacher was not good at teaching. He had a difficult time explaining the same thing in different ways so that his students would understand how the principle worked. However, a lab would still have been very valuable for this class, even if the professor hosted it themself.
Probably not, since he apparently didn't know the subject matter well enough to even know what to have put in the lab!
Team up with Mike Rowe and create MangoU has an IT Trade school for the different facets of IT. You want to be a programmer? Take this course. You want to go into networking? Go into this program.
How valuable is that really? The people who need structured courses to learn are most likely going to have a very hard time with a fluid IT environment. I think most people could benefit from an internship long before they would benefit from a structured course.
Okay, so how about some kind of work/study program? Team the student up with half a day in the field, behind a helpdesk or something and the other half in school. The time they spend in the field pays for the schooling with maybe a little extra for themselves plus a 2nd job to live or something.
I'm not married to one solution. Just like love, IT will find a way.
Or, they could get an internship... many of the ones I've seen and the one I participated in was paid. This will give them hands-on production technology use and if they have a decent mentor they will get into a lot of the theory behind why things are the way they are.
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Has anyone seen a real internship that actually was all that valuable compared to "just go learn it?" I love the idea, but in day to day work how many people do a huge range of interesting things in a way that benefits education? Shadowing IT people at work now and then, yeah, super valuable. But I've known no internship that after a year taught as much as two weeks of just sitting down with a book and a computer and learning some stuff.
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@scottalanmiller said in Of What Should Baseline IT Education Consist:
Has anyone seen a real internship that actually was all that valuable compared to "just go learn it?" I love the idea, but in day to day work how many people do a huge range of interesting things in a way that benefits education? Shadowing IT people at work now and then, yeah, super valuable. But I've known no internship that after a year taught as much as two weeks of just sitting down with a book and a computer and learning some stuff.
I had good luck with my internship... but that may be because I was doing the sitting down with a computer and building my own lab in my spare time.
