Time for me to move on from Webroot
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Wasn't DARE like a drug version of the Hitler Youth?
Seriously I Laughed out loud at that.
Sure, except that it's purpose was to try to keep kids away from something bad for them, like drugs.. vs another program which was to report parents that were speaking against the government. One has a good goal, the other is about totalitarianism.
Both were about totalitarianism though. One acutely one not. It was a way for law enforcement to get in front of kids and try to control behavior. Just like most prohibitions it did exactly the opposite.
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Wasn't DARE like a drug version of the Hitler Youth?
Seriously I Laughed out loud at that.
Sure, except that it's purpose was to try to keep kids away from something bad for them, like drugs.. vs another program which was to report parents that were speaking against the government. One has a good goal, the other is about totalitarianism.
No, it was a program meant to get kids to turn in adults. DARE wasn't about getting kids off of drugs, just like the war on drugs wasn't. Both expanded drug use and solidified the power of cartels rather than moving power to local growers. DARE was never about stopping kids doing drugs. That's why it was like the Hitler Youth. Both sounded good at the time, but their actual motives were sinister.
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@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Wasn't DARE like a drug version of the Hitler Youth?
Seriously I Laughed out loud at that.
Sure, except that it's purpose was to try to keep kids away from something bad for them, like drugs.. vs another program which was to report parents that were speaking against the government. One has a good goal, the other is about totalitarianism.
Both were about totalitarianism though. One acutely one not. It was a way for law enforcement to get in front of kids and try to control behavior of adults.
It was using kids as part of law enforcement. It put kids in danger, it put adults in danger, it made children into reports about something that they were being lied to about and could not really understand.
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@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Every study shows higher drug use for kids in DARE than without DARE
That does seem weird - why do you think that is so? rebellious nature of kids?
It provided so much false information that it became clear that the anti-drug people were the bad guys
This, this was one of the biggest issues with D.A.R.E it made, even me an impressionable and gullible kid, question them when I could fairly easily goto the library and see what they were telling us was false.
huh, OK I'm clearly going to open a door for JB to slam me here - but either I totally didn't give a shit about what they were saying, or was to stupid to see that their statements were/seemed false. I tend to lean toward the first option, but I must leave some room I guess.
I never felt that what they were saying was false, but at the same time I never had the desire to even try it. I guess being an asthmatic and smoking alone could cause me to collapse, the whole drug thing was a non starter for me.
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Every study shows higher drug use for kids in DARE than without DARE
That does seem weird - why do you think that is so? rebellious nature of kids?
It provided so much false information that it became clear that the anti-drug people were the bad guys
This, this was one of the biggest issues with D.A.R.E it made, even me an impressionable and gullible kid, question them when I could fairly easily goto the library and see what they were telling us was false.
huh, OK I'm clearly going to open a door for JB to slam me here - but either I totally didn't give a shit about what they were saying, or was to stupid to see that their statements were/seemed false. I tend to lean toward the first option, but I must leave some room I guess.
I never felt that what they were saying was false, but at the same time I never had the desire to even try it. I guess being an asthmatic and smoking alone could cause me to collapse, the whole drug thing was a non starter for me.
It was probably the former. Most people didn't give a shit about what they were saying. Which was part of the problem it made ignoring them the cool thing to do.
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
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@scottalanmiller said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Every study shows higher drug use for kids in DARE than without DARE
That does seem weird - why do you think that is so? rebellious nature of kids?
DARE didn't require it to be rebellious. It made authorities into the bad guys, made those that avoided drugs look like losers, branded those avoiding drugs as bad apples, made kids stand out for avoiding drugs, etc. It provided so much false information that it became clear that the anti-drug people were the bad guys and that all of the warnings about drugs were obviously from a questionable source.
Wow - I didn't get that impression at all. If you have an old PSA from DARE that you can show as an example, I might understand it better today.
At worst, I saw DARE showing that only those flaunting the law took drugs.
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Nice threadjack guys.
Have fun at your new job Nic!
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@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
can you provide an example of a false statement?
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@scottalanmiller hit the nail on the head. DARE basically did 3 things that were really bad.
- I had never even heard of marijuana, heroine, or crack in 5th grade, but I was introduced to all that in the DARE program
- They blatantly lied about things you have already been exposed to such as alcohol and beer. My father, mother, and their friends regularly drank beer and occasionally liquor so I knew that it was flat out lie that one beer could kill you.
- It made not doing drugs look really dorky.
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@DenisKelley said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Nice threadjack guys.
Here at ML, this is merely called a thread.
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
can you provide an example of a false statement?
Unfortunately no, they've changed their curriculum since I was in school and I can only give you anecdotal evidence from personal experience of what was said in our "classes". Mostly that Canabis is ridiculously addictive, and can kill you if you take it once.
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
can you provide an example of a false statement?
Can you provide an example of a true statement from the DARE program? lol. They were trying to scare kids so they manipulated the facts. What they said may not have been a blatant lie, but used favorable stats to be purposely misleading.
We see the media and government spew misleading facts all the time. The specific stats they are quoting are true, but they are meant to make you believe something that isn't necessarily true.
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@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller hit the nail on the head. DARE basically did 3 things that were really bad.
- I had never even heard of marijuana, heroine, or crack in 5th grade, but I was introduced to all that in the DARE program
- They blatantly lied about things you have already been exposed to such as alcohol and beer. My father, mother, and their friends regularly drank beer and occasionally liquor so I knew that it was flat out lie that one beer could kill you.
- It made not doing drugs look really dorky.
That pretty much summed it up. It's kind of like what a drug cartel would design as an educational program to prep kids to be junkies. And then it's presented by a non-profit to do it. Really, if a cartel wanted to do the maximum damage, this is how they would have hoped it would have played out.
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@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
can you provide an example of a false statement?
Can you provide an example of a true statement from the DARE program? lol. They were trying to scare kids so they manipulated the facts. What they said may not have been a blatant lie, but used favorable stats to be purposely misleading.
We see the media and government spew misleading facts all the time. The specific stats they are quoting are true, but they are meant to make you believe something that isn't necessarily true.
You've just described anyone who is trying to sell their point when talking about anything ever. LOL
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@coliver said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
I was a nerdy kid who enjoyed the library a bit too much. So when they started spewing false statements I had this desire to fact check them.
can you provide an example of a false statement?
Can you provide an example of a true statement from the DARE program? lol. They were trying to scare kids so they manipulated the facts. What they said may not have been a blatant lie, but used favorable stats to be purposely misleading.
We see the media and government spew misleading facts all the time. The specific stats they are quoting are true, but they are meant to make you believe something that isn't necessarily true.
You've just described anyone who is trying to sell their point when talking about anything ever. LOL
But you don't do it to kids to encourage them to be junkies!
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@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller hit the nail on the head. DARE basically did 3 things that were really bad.
- I had never even heard of marijuana, heroine, or crack in 5th grade, but I was introduced to all that in the DARE program
- They blatantly lied about things you have already been exposed to such as alcohol and beer. My father, mother, and their friends regularly drank beer and occasionally liquor so I knew that it was flat out lie that one beer could kill you.
- It made not doing drugs look really dorky.
Yes that was my reaction when I first saw DARE.
The same type of people who made Reefer Madness are still around, still doing massive social damage 100 years later. -
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller hit the nail on the head. DARE basically did 3 things that were really bad.
- I had never even heard of marijuana, heroine, or crack in 5th grade, but I was introduced to all that in the DARE program
I give you this one.
- They blatantly lied about things you have already been exposed to such as alcohol and beer. My father, mother, and their friends regularly drank beer and occasionally liquor so I knew that it was flat out lie that one beer could kill you.
I certainly don't recall them ever telling our class (in Nebraska) that you could die from one beer, or one joint - though I do recall that they said you could die from one use of one of the hard core ones, like crack or heroine.
- It made not doing drugs look really dorky.
And how did they do that? By showing you pictures of celebrities that were doing drugs and how awesome their lives were, even though they did drugs and that you shouldn't do them? seriously... they showed us pictures of people strung out on meth and cocaine, not a pretty picture. I never left those lectures thinking.. damn I'm lame because I don't do drugs.
Again I go back to the rebellious question - did it seem cool because kids are rebellious and want to do the opposite of what "the man" says they should?
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@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@scottalanmiller hit the nail on the head. DARE basically did 3 things that were really bad.
- I had never even heard of marijuana, heroine, or crack in 5th grade, but I was introduced to all that in the DARE program
I give you this one.
- They blatantly lied about things you have already been exposed to such as alcohol and beer. My father, mother, and their friends regularly drank beer and occasionally liquor so I knew that it was flat out lie that one beer could kill you.
I certainly don't recall them ever telling our class (in Nebraska) that you could die from one beer, or one joint - though I do recall that they said you could die from one use of one of the hard core ones, like crack or heroine.
- It made not doing drugs look really dorky.
And how did they do that? By showing you pictures of celebrities that were doing drugs and how awesome their lives were, even though they did drugs and that you shouldn't do them? seriously... they showed us pictures of people strung out on meth and cocaine, not a pretty picture. I never left those lectures thinking.. damn I'm lame because I don't do drugs.
Again I go back to the rebellious question - did it seem cool because kids are rebellious and want to do the opposite of what "the man" says they should?
Kids in kindergarten think cops are cool, once you get to middle school you don't think that anymore. At least the majority of kids don't.
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@IRJ said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
@Dashrender said in Time for me to move on from Webroot:
Again I go back to the rebellious question - did it seem cool because kids are rebellious and want to do the opposite of what "the man" says they should?
Kids in kindergarten think cops are cool, once you get to middle school you don't think that anymore. At least the majority of kids don't.
So you're giving me this point then? that it's really just the rebellious nature of children, so the message is lost. I can accept that.
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@Dashrender we were told some stories that I am sure were true. For example the one about the beer was a guy that never drank alcohol before and didn't know how to react when drunk and got hit by a car. A drunk guy probably did get hit by a car whether it was his first time drinking or whether the alcohol caused it, that is deabateable.
Also absolutely some people have addictive personalities and can instantly become addicts to anything (not limited to drugs). So yes I am sure that someone tried marijuana once and was 100% addicted to it, but that is one person. Not the majority.
