Logical IT Certification Progression
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@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@scottalanmiller said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@BBigford said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@BBigford said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
I think that progression is listed fairly well for a working foundation. To add to that (in no particular order)...
Network+ > CCNA
Why not CCENT > CCNA? CCENT is basically the same as Network+, but gives you credit towards CCNA
Because it costs money and, as you said, it's basically the same thing. I've told people to just keep studying and skip it if they already have the Net+. Assuming they want to keep going and are considering the CCENT because they think it holds more merit than the Net+ as far as difficulty and industry recognition goes. Only reason is I think it's just a waste of money when someone could spend more time studying for the CCNA and just go ahead and test on that.
Just my opinion though.
I agree, I'd rather have the Net+ and the CCNA because it's two totally different exams and tests. The CCENT is pointless if you get the CCNA.
Eli the computer guy abhors the CCNA. Not sure the story on that.
Eli the computer guy is far from an authority on anything IMO.
I'm sure he would beg to differ. I randomly decided to let a couple of his daily vlogs run in the background, the dude is quite sure of himself when it comes to be an IT person. What would make you think he's got nothing to offer? Just curious.
You're right he would beg to differ. He says some good stuff, but he is too full of himself. He's a really bad teacher. The analogies he uses are awful and rarely make sense. He feels like he must make an analogy for everything.
Right. Not everything needs an analogy. You can explain things and assume people know what you're talking about. Making analogies ALL the times is the same as treating your students like idiots. Just explain the tech. If someone doesn't understand, try a different approach at explaining it, but leave the analogies out of it.
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@BBigford said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@scottalanmiller said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@BBigford said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@BBigford said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
I think that progression is listed fairly well for a working foundation. To add to that (in no particular order)...
Network+ > CCNA
Why not CCENT > CCNA? CCENT is basically the same as Network+, but gives you credit towards CCNA
Because it costs money and, as you said, it's basically the same thing. I've told people to just keep studying and skip it if they already have the Net+. Assuming they want to keep going and are considering the CCENT because they think it holds more merit than the Net+ as far as difficulty and industry recognition goes. Only reason is I think it's just a waste of money when someone could spend more time studying for the CCNA and just go ahead and test on that.
Just my opinion though.
I agree, I'd rather have the Net+ and the CCNA because it's two totally different exams and tests. The CCENT is pointless if you get the CCNA.
Eli the computer guy abhors the CCNA. Not sure the story on that.
Eli the computer guy is far from an authority on anything IMO.
I'm sure he would beg to differ. I randomly decided to let a couple of his daily vlogs run in the background, the dude is quite sure of himself when it comes to be an IT person. What would make you think he's got nothing to offer? Just curious.
You're right he would beg to differ. He says some good stuff, but he is too full of himself. He's a really bad teacher. The analogies he uses are awful and rarely make sense. He feels like he must make an analogy for everything.
Right. Not everything needs an analogy. You can explain things and assume people know what you're talking about. Making analogies ALL the times is the same as treating your students like idiots. Just explain the tech. If someone doesn't understand, try a different approach at explaining it, but leave the analogies out of it.
Tough in a video, big audience and he doesn't know what people get and what they don't.
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Question: Why should I participate at Mangolassi?
Answer: Um, well, ok, think of it as kinda like a hamburger, but it has no onions. The hamburger is tasty and useful, but maybe missing some flavor. You click reply and type something. That something is like onions you're adding to the burger. The burger becomes tasty and has more flavors, people like it. The entire burger becomes more complete. And the more people reply and add ingredients, the better the burger tastes. When you create new threads, it's like having fries or shake, and then other people add some salt or chocolate. Mangolassi is like a multi-course meal, the Internet is like a restaurant.....
That answer your question?
Ok I'm out.....
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@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
Question: Why should I participate at Mangolassi?
Answer: Um, well, ok, think of it as kinda like a hamburger, but it has no onions. The hamburger is tasty and useful, but maybe missing some flavor. You click reply and type something. That something is like onions you're adding to the burger. The burger becomes tasty and has more flavors, people like it. The entire burger becomes more complete. And the more people reply and add ingredients, the better the burger tastes. When you create new threads, it's like having fries or shake, and then other people add some salt or chocolate. Mangolassi is like a multi-course meal, the Internet is like a restaurant.....
That answer your question?
Ok I'm out.....
Aliens love burgers...
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@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
Question: Why should I participate at Mangolassi?
Answer: Um, well, ok, think of it as kinda like a hamburger, but it has no onions. The hamburger is tasty and useful, but maybe missing some flavor. You click reply and type something. That something is like onions you're adding to the burger. The burger becomes tasty and has more flavors, people like it. The entire burger becomes more complete. And the more people reply and add ingredients, the better the burger tastes. When you create new threads, it's like having fries or shake, and then other people add some salt or chocolate. Mangolassi is like a multi-course meal, the Internet is like a restaurant.....
That answer your question?
Ok I'm out.....
Aliens love burgers...
Aliens are like other forums.......
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@IRJ said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
A+ didn't teach me anything useful. It was a test just to get a piece of paper to help me get a job.
This, at least in my opinion, really depends on experience and understanding prior to taking the test.
I personally think that the A+ certification is great in at least two scenarios:
- For people who don't have enough experience or understanding to realize that solving IT problems, in a "foundational" sense, really boils down to "Is the issue I'm trying to work through a 'hardware problem', a 'software problem' or 'both'?"
- For people who partially fit the profile of #1 but they don't yet realize it, or they haven't developed it enough.
(3) My opinion is that the A+ cert is either for someone who is very green to the field of IT and is just beginning their journey (and this may not even mean someone who is pursuing a career in IT), so they're looking to build foundational knowledge -OR- it's for someone who's got some IT experience and they want to either begin a career in IT, or they're still in the early phases of their IT career and they need to play the game of "show me your paper" in order to take it to the next level (which matches your scenario).
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People put too much hate on A+.
Sure if you've already been a bench tech for a few years it kind of doesn't mean much at that point, you've seen enough problems to be a good tech.
But for me, I owned like 2 computers before I got my first job as a tech, and they wanted A+ for the job. All of my study was purely for A+, with no experience at all. I remember reading those fat bastard 5 inch computer repair books all night trying to memorize power supply voltages for each pin, and IRQs and 802.x details. I burned through many highlighters and notebooks!
As a person with no real computer repair skills, all of that study was a huge foundation for me. It's not the A+ test or cert that teaches anything, it's how much study and experience you get/need to pass it in the first place. I actually failed the hardware part of the test at first due to all the friggin nonsense trivia questions.
Regardless, a person can be a "computer repair tech" purely by experience but not really know anything about how anything works or why. But you do gain a bit of an advantage with the book learning aspect too. It's nice to read up on how things work under the hood, and not simply know how to fix it.
Experience is great, book learning is great, but a mix of both is better still.
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@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
People put too much hate on A+.
Sure if you've already been a bench tech for a few years it kind of doesn't mean much at that point, you've seen enough problems to be a good tech.
Because it's a cert for bench, sold to IT on a scam marketing binge, that is horribly outdated and treated as a joke by the company that makes it. It's really that bad. The data on the test isn't real world or useful. And it's for an industry different than the one it is sold to.
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@scottalanmiller said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
People put too much hate on A+.
Sure if you've already been a bench tech for a few years it kind of doesn't mean much at that point, you've seen enough problems to be a good tech.
Because it's a cert for bench, sold to IT on a scam marketing binge, that is horribly outdated and treated as a joke by the company that makes it. It's really that bad. The data on the test isn't real world or useful. And it's for an industry different than the one it is sold to.
All this may be true, but I'm speaking of the training you do before taking the test.
My computer hardware and software and repair books were quite valid training materials with a ton of references and technical details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
The $140 test is inconsequential at that point. Take it not, depends on if your job market puts any validity behind it.If you want to hire for a basic bench tech position, what are you going to ask for? There are only a few options.
- Some kind of undergrad or computer science degree. But who gets a degree like that to get a bench tech job at $10/hr?
- Years of experience. Again, what experience tech wants a beginner bench tech job?
- Some random certs that at least prove they must have read a computer repair book once.
I'm not saying A+ is awesome, but what else is a decent alternative? CCNAs don't want $10/hr tech jobs. Net+ has nothing to do with bench tech really. MS Windows certs only barely apply, if at all.
What is a beginner bench tech to do?
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@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
As a person with no real computer repair skills, all of that study was a huge foundation for me. It's not the A+ test or cert that teaches anything, it's how much study and experience you get/need to pass it in the first place. I actually failed the hardware part of the test at first due to all the friggin nonsense trivia questions.
Why the {self moderated} {censored} {bleeping} {honk} do I need to know the L2 Cache on an 8088 CPU? Pentiums had been out 4 years at that point, and the P2s were just hitting the market when I took my test.
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@dafyre said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
As a person with no real computer repair skills, all of that study was a huge foundation for me. It's not the A+ test or cert that teaches anything, it's how much study and experience you get/need to pass it in the first place. I actually failed the hardware part of the test at first due to all the friggin nonsense trivia questions.
Why the {self moderated} {censored} {bleeping} {honk} do I need to know the L2 Cache on an 8088 CPU? Pentiums had been out 4 years at that point, and the P2s were just hitting the market when I took my test.
<just kidding>
You had to learn history in school, so why not in IT?
</just kidding> -
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
al details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
Answer questions posed at an interview.
Besides, bench techs don't think, according to @scottalanmiller, they work by script - aka, reading a script and doing what it says. Once you have to start making decisions, you're no longer a bench tech, you're in IT.
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@Dashrender said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
al details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
Answer questions posed at an interview.
Besides, bench techs don't think, according to @scottalanmiller, they work by script - aka, reading a script and doing what it says. Once you have to start making decisions, you're no longer a bench tech, you're in IT.
Arguably, if you've done bench work for any extended amount of time it really doesn't require much thought. You see the same types of issues coming in and your response is almost reflex, especially if you are working on a standardized set of hardware.
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@RamblingBiped said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@Dashrender said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
al details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
Answer questions posed at an interview.
Besides, bench techs don't think, according to @scottalanmiller, they work by script - aka, reading a script and doing what it says. Once you have to start making decisions, you're no longer a bench tech, you're in IT.
Arguably, if you've done bench work for any extended amount of time it really doesn't require much thought. You see the same types of issues coming in and your response is almost reflex, especially if you are working on a standardized set of hardware.
Yes and no.
I had to do a lot of bizarre stuff and a lot of bizarre requests. We would solder loose power ports on laptops, or USB ports. Reseat loose mobo chips. Analyze POST codes. Do advanced data recovery on dying hard drives, repair MBRs from viruses. Replace various broken control boards on CRT monitors.
After about 8 years you've certainly seen it all. Like wanting DOS 7 installed in a WinXP world. Or recalibrating a dot matrix printer for an old custom application on DOS.Bench tech used to be fun when people actually wanted "repair". Nowadays it's either replace hardware and reload. Or just reload. People don't care about "fixing" any more, half the time it's faster to wipe out and start over.
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Microsoft's Windows exams are often overlooked. I believe it is a great certification. I went through the Windows 7 version with my fiance and I found it to be a great starter IT test. These test go over everything you need to know about a specific desktop OS. The material is setup in a way that really focuses on beginners, but also presents useful knowledge like knowing your way around the control panel, understanding the boot files, etc.
MTA also some interesting courses that go beyond desktop OS(es) and give you some insight to servers, IT infrastructure, etc.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/learning/mta-certification.aspx
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@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@scottalanmiller said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
People put too much hate on A+.
Sure if you've already been a bench tech for a few years it kind of doesn't mean much at that point, you've seen enough problems to be a good tech.
Because it's a cert for bench, sold to IT on a scam marketing binge, that is horribly outdated and treated as a joke by the company that makes it. It's really that bad. The data on the test isn't real world or useful. And it's for an industry different than the one it is sold to.
All this may be true, but I'm speaking of the training you do before taking the test.
My computer hardware and software and repair books were quite valid training materials with a ton of references and technical details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
The $140 test is inconsequential at that point. Take it not, depends on if your job market puts any validity behind it.If you want to hire for a basic bench tech position, what are you going to ask for? There are only a few options.
- Some kind of undergrad or computer science degree. But who gets a degree like that to get a bench tech job at $10/hr?
- Years of experience. Again, what experience tech wants a beginner bench tech job?
- Some random certs that at least prove they must have read a computer repair book once.
I'm not saying A+ is awesome, but what else is a decent alternative? CCNAs don't want $10/hr tech jobs. Net+ has nothing to do with bench tech really. MS Windows certs only barely apply, if at all.
What is a beginner bench tech to do?
If you are hiring bench then absolutely, you hire people with a bench cert (or training.) The point is, you don't hire IT people at this level or, if you do, their entry cert is the Net+.
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@thwr said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@dafyre said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
As a person with no real computer repair skills, all of that study was a huge foundation for me. It's not the A+ test or cert that teaches anything, it's how much study and experience you get/need to pass it in the first place. I actually failed the hardware part of the test at first due to all the friggin nonsense trivia questions.
Why the {self moderated} {censored} {bleeping} {honk} do I need to know the L2 Cache on an 8088 CPU? Pentiums had been out 4 years at that point, and the P2s were just hitting the market when I took my test.
<just kidding>
You had to learn history in school, so why not in IT?
</just kidding>IT History is ACTUALLY valuable. Not as valuable as a CCIE, of course. But I see lots of mistakes made where IT History would have been really useful.
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@Dashrender said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
al details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
Answer questions posed at an interview.
Besides, bench techs don't think, according to @scottalanmiller, they work by script - aka, reading a script and doing what it says. Once you have to start making decisions, you're no longer a bench tech, you're in IT.
Not quite, but that's closer. Bench is about tech, about consumer gear or business stuff that falls into consumer spaces. IT is "Business Information Infrastructure."
Lots of bench people make decisions. Like if you are building a white box desktop for a gamer, the bench guy will likely make several decisions from CPU to GPU to RAM to case and power supply. It's not a script, but it is not BII, either.
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@RamblingBiped said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@Dashrender said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
@guyinpv said in Logical IT Certification Progression:
al details. I don't regret buying or reading through any of them. Books on Windows, DOS, printers, networks, repair and troubleshooting techniques, system design and building, etc etc. All of that is good.
Answer questions posed at an interview.
Besides, bench techs don't think, according to @scottalanmiller, they work by script - aka, reading a script and doing what it says. Once you have to start making decisions, you're no longer a bench tech, you're in IT.
Arguably, if you've done bench work for any extended amount of time it really doesn't require much thought. You see the same types of issues coming in and your response is almost reflex, especially if you are working on a standardized set of hardware.
That's mostly true, but the knowledge is not completely static.
