When Technical Meets Non-Technical
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@Dashrender said:
@Minion-Queen said:
@Dashrender said:
Do I understand that you approached this co-worker for feedback, and that's when they disagreed with your lack of confirmation with other co-workers before acting?
Does you MSP run solutions by committee? The few I've worked with don't. The tech assigned generally makes all the calls as needed, when they don't know they escalate.
Remember that not all MSP's operate like NTG does working as a TEAM to cover for each other.
Not sure what you mean? If I hire and MSP I fully EXPECT them to work as a team to cover for each other, otherwise why am I with you? Only exception is a one man shop.
That's definitely not the norm. But you also have to realize that lots of clients don't want team work, they want accountability. It is very common in IT to "expect" a certain behaviour without it being stated but rarely does that match what many customers want.
The idea behind an MSP is not to make the work be a team. That's a benefit that some MSPs, like NTG, provide for you. But remember that the average MSP is only one or two people and so conceptually getting a team rather than a person isn't even possible. Often an MSP is a one man shop too and has to do all the business stuff AND the IT stuff so you are only getting a part time IT resource.
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@Minion-Queen said:
Most MSP's really do work based on an Account Manager being fully responsible for the client. And honestly most of them are such small shops they really don't have a team to rely on.
My guess would be that 90% of MSPs don't have more than a single full time IT person (but many might have one full and one part.)
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@handsofqwerty said:
A peer who works the same client.
A peer would imply that they are an IT resource.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
A peer who works the same client.
A peer would imply that they are an IT resource.
They do the same kind of work I do, but they do it from a procedural standpoint. They know if they get alert A, they do X, Y and Z. They don't really understand what they're looking at, and honestly, they don't have to for the position they're in. They just have to know what to look for, and if it is what it's supposed to be, do this. Otherwise, do that.
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I want a part timer
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@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
A peer who works the same client.
A peer would imply that they are an IT resource.
They do the same kind of work I do, but they do it from a procedural standpoint. They know if they get alert A, they do X, Y and Z. They don't really understand what they're looking at, and honestly, they don't have to for the position they're in. They just have to know what to look for, and if it is what it's supposed to be, do this. Otherwise, do that.
They don't seem to be a good candidate for bouncing ideas off of then.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
A peer who works the same client.
A peer would imply that they are an IT resource.
They do the same kind of work I do, but they do it from a procedural standpoint. They know if they get alert A, they do X, Y and Z. They don't really understand what they're looking at, and honestly, they don't have to for the position they're in. They just have to know what to look for, and if it is what it's supposed to be, do this. Otherwise, do that.
They don't seem to be a good candidate for bouncing ideas off of then.
I don't. If I have a question, I never go to this person. They had a case assigned to them this morning. An email came in regarding taking an action on the case, and all I did was ask if they'd seen the email. Then all this started.
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So they don't even know if you are consulting with other people or not?
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@scottalanmiller said:
So they don't even know if you are consulting with other people or not?
This co-worker sits about 12 feet from me. They are in their own little world most of the time, because I know it takes many times the concentration for them to do what I can do practically in my sleep. I've spent a great deal of time making myself more efficient, writing macros to do common tasks to improve speed and efficiency, etc. But they don't monitor everything I do, AFAIK. Technically there is no way they could know if I did consult or not, because I could have emailed or chatted with someone directly, and they wouldn't know.
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So I guess the question is... what is the question? Sounds like a random person spouting off about something they have not observed, have nothing to do with and aren't your manager in any way?
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@scottalanmiller said:
So I guess the question is... what is the question? Sounds like a random person spouting off about something they have not observed, have nothing to do with and aren't your manager in any way?
I guess the real question is how I should address this. This person is always telling me how I'm doing something wrong, or this or that, but nothing they've said has ever been mentioned by a manager, and I'm sure they've said something to the managers. I just don't know if I should go to a manager and ask them about dealing with what's starting to amount to harassment or just try and let it go.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So I guess the question is... what is the question? Sounds like a random person spouting off about something they have not observed, have nothing to do with and aren't your manager in any way?
I guess the real question is how I should address this. This person is always telling me how I'm doing something wrong, or this or that, but nothing they've said has ever been mentioned by a manager, and I'm sure they've said something to the managers. I just don't know if I should go to a manager and ask them about dealing with what's starting to amount to harassment or just try and let it go.
Document what they say each time and how it is incorrect and keep it to yourself. Unless a manager gets involved, what do you care? It's just an annoying coworker.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@scottalanmiller said:
So I guess the question is... what is the question? Sounds like a random person spouting off about something they have not observed, have nothing to do with and aren't your manager in any way?
I guess the real question is how I should address this. This person is always telling me how I'm doing something wrong, or this or that, but nothing they've said has ever been mentioned by a manager, and I'm sure they've said something to the managers. I just don't know if I should go to a manager and ask them about dealing with what's starting to amount to harassment or just try and let it go.
Document what they say each time and how it is incorrect and keep it to yourself. Unless a manager gets involved, what do you care? It's just an annoying coworker.
Ok, thanks.
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Sounds like either this person does not trust you working on this account they are responsible for. Or they just don't want you at the company.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Sounds like either this person does not trust you working on this account they are responsible for. Or they just don't want you at the company.
They aren't responsible for it. They are just one of many techs, including myself, who work on cases for the account. It feels more like they just don't want me here. They are the only person who has a problem with me.
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To @scottalanmiller in the case where the company is small and only has one or two techs, if those people aren't talking to each other nearly daily I'd be super surprised (unless they don't work in the same office - but even then I would still find it odd if they didn't), then sure there is no team.. of course there can't be a team of one.
As for the rest, MSP's really everyone exists in a bubble? I understand that a customer wants a single throat to chock, but at the same time on the back end if Tech A assigned to that account is out.. would not Tech B go assuming they were free, etc?
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@Dashrender said:
As for the rest, MSP's really everyone exists in a bubble? I understand that a customer wants a single throat to chock, but at the same time on the back end if Tech A assigned to that account is out.. would not Tech B go assuming they were free, etc?
Coverage and team isn't really the same. Sure, they will have coverage, but that doesn't mean that they are likely to consult each other about practices. At NTG, for example, if something is being architected the engineer in question has to have it peer reviewed. I do a lot of that peer review. I ask a lot of questions like "why this technology", "have you looked at this", "how will this or that be addressed", "what is the cost", "have we talked to management about risk or cost, etc." It's often pretty lengthy.
That's what most MSPs don't do. Most internal IT doesn't either. If someone is out and someone else takes the calls, sure, they "all" do that.
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@Dashrender said:
To @scottalanmiller in the case where the company is small and only has one or two techs, if those people aren't talking to each other nearly daily I'd be super surprised ....
Small companies are often heavily field based and it would actually be fairly rare that they were in the same office. If you have a two person MSP sharing a physical office either they are earning almost nothing or you are probably paying too much. Offices cost money and for only two people, while you can get them cheap, that's a cost with little benefit that has nowhere to be passed on to except for the customers. And a two man MSP office is a lot "per person" cost which equates to a lot "per customer."
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As for the rest, MSP's really everyone exists in a bubble? I understand that a customer wants a single throat to chock, but at the same time on the back end if Tech A assigned to that account is out.. would not Tech B go assuming they were free, etc?
Coverage and team isn't really the same. Sure, they will have coverage, but that doesn't mean that they are likely to consult each other about practices. At NTG, for example, if something is being architected the engineer in question has to have it peer reviewed. I do a lot of that peer review. I ask a lot of questions like "why this technology", "have you looked at this", "how will this or that be addressed", "what is the cost", "have we talked to management about risk or cost, etc." It's often pretty lengthy.
That's what most MSPs don't do. Most internal IT doesn't either. If someone is out and someone else takes the calls, sure, they "all" do that.
I can attest to how long some of these consult calls go. We meet with the customer to gain information to what they need, and then we had a discussion internally that was many times three to four times the length of the consult with the customer, which is how it should be. They tell us what they want in mostly broad and some specific terms, and then we figure out what will be the best solution. But yeah, for one customer in particular, the meetup with @NetworkNerd and I was 45 minutes or so. The internal discussion between @NetworkNerd, @FiyaFly, @scottalanmiller and myself was at least 3 hours, if not longer.
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Internal discussions are also great for training. You learn a lot that way.
