Why Do People Still Text
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@gjacobse said in Why Do People Still Text:
My office is in a poor coverage area for cell, but it's better then internet over cell. Texting works more reliably there.
And you don't have wifi for users?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
While it isn't anywhere near perfect - what really is - SMS's biggest advantage in the US is ubiquity - you have a cellphone? then you have SMS.
That's true today, in the US. But it wasn't true when I first started having these conversations. Texting was gaining use when lots of people didn't have it. And then when people had it, but it wasn't free.
And while you might say everyone has it and it is free, that's for personal devices only, and only for people over a certain age and even then, only with a certain (low bar) of affluence.
But I have lots of young family members who have been using non-SMS services for many years but either don't have or just got SMS service. You are thinking purely of reasonably affluent, American adults and no one else. And only those that don't travel, have family that travels, or have family that is poor or young.
Well, now you're expanding the conversation. Texting, at least to me, is about a near instantaneous desire for communication. I text, I expect a response in 2 mins or less - is that reasonable? who's to say, but in general, most people do.
When I email - I don't ever expect a response. OK that's not true, Of course I do expect a response, but it's amazing how often I don't get one.
And while you and I disagree - a phone call is the most urgent form of communication - I need someone to help me RIGHT BLOODY NOW.
Sure SMS/Email/WhatsApp can all make a digging sound on whatever device receives the notice of a new message, but none of them compare to the ring of the phone with it's continuous sound looking for attention.But if you want to bring kids in here or non affluent persons. How are they checking messages? Once a day offline - Sure SMS is bad for that, I'm in no way saying we shouldn't have more than one way to communicate. Nor am I saying we should KILL SMS - we should! But we aren't going to. At least not today. There isn't something as US universal... and until there is something that is as near to friction free, or SMSing becomes painful, people simply won't move away from it.
Hell - can you even disable it? Not sure if you can or not...
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Supposedly places like Africa flip phones are about all they have, and they do their whole digital lives on those things.
Living in a place on par with most of Africa in income, I know this was true just a few years ago, but I suspect it is not true now. People have almost all moved on from flip phones, they are just so awful. The cost of decent smart phones is so low now. We can buy really good, brand new, name brand phones here for $150. I have one. It's great. I mean, it's not the latest iPhone by any stretch, but it's got 64GB of storage, a fast processor, plays games, looks nice, good screen, etc. You can definitely get a smart phone for $50. A flip phone will be less, obviously, but it's such a key part of your life that even the poorest people invest in them.
And because SMS costs them more than WhatsApp, investing in the phone instead of paying for the messages is smart. I have a friend in Malawi and I know it's all iPhones there, just older models. It's just what makes financial sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Many corporate jobs won't let you install whatever IM solution you're using. or are blocking them to keep malware at bay.
Many won't allow texting, either. I'm not sure what this is in reference to. You are saying you have customers who don't own phones and so this breaks ALL of your other points?
You mention using third party apps on your computer, many companies won't let you install third party apps on your company computer. that's what I'm saying. You mention not using SMS because when I'm on my computer I don't want to worry about having to have my phone nearby - I'm saying if you desire to stay in contact with family, etc while working on a computer - then you'll likely need to keep your phone near you regardless because you often won't be allowed access to those non work communication methods from your work computer.
let's take email again - All the hospitals around here are blocking access to email that is not corporate email - no gmail/yahoo/secure mail, etc... They are trying to prevent crap from entering their computers from email systems they don't control. So if I choose email as my main communication with family, etc, I'd have to keep my phone nearby so I could check it throughout the day.
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@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
That was definitely not my experience. I've had cell service continuously since 1992 and did not get access to texting until more like 2002 and never sent or received a text until I would guess after 2006. But I had email on my phone before that and talked with loads of people because it was common in business then, because of Blackberry devices, to have email on the phones. ANd because texting was costly and rarely available, they had Blackberry messenger instead of texting on the devices. We didn't use it, but it was there.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
You mention using third party apps on your computer, many companies won't let you install third party apps on your company computer. that's what I'm saying.
Right, but SMS requires a third party app in that case, too. So in the case where you can not install anything, both are affected the same. In the case where you can install something you get benefits to not being on SMS.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
You mention not using SMS because when I'm on my computer I don't want to worry about having to have my phone nearby - I'm saying if you desire to stay in contact with family, etc while working on a computer - then you'll likely need to keep your phone near you regardless because you often won't be allowed access to those non work communication methods from your work computer.
This is a "just you" thing. Nearly all people are allowed, while working, to use their computers to talk to people AND have data service on their phones. So their options are broad. Your issues are not super uncommon, but to think it is the norm is not at all the case.
You are probably more likely to not have a computer at work at all, than to not be allowed to go to a website to talk to people. As an employer, blocking that means I'm making people less productive by making them pull out a phone, disconnect from looking at their computer, and type slowly. It is strongly in the interest on any business to have you communicate on the computer so that you are interrupted less and for briefer periods unless they take away your cell phones, too.
The later I have had happen as well. But just because it HAS happened to me doesn't mean it's normal.
But bottom line, anytime SMS works, other things work. But there are loads and loads of times that other things work that SMS does not.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
sure it does, but those that I know that have flip phones don't text, I know three.. none of them use SMS.
Mostly because they don't have keyboards so ANY form of communications is all but impossible.
People used to learn how to do that. Very few people can text on number pads today.
This was my point.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
Not true. Here there is "one app" and the app owner has no access to the data. SMS is the only major communications player today where the data goes somewhere other than the parties communicating.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
It's so bad that stores in the US have setup SMS gateways because they can't get customers to install their app for push notices, so they have to use SMS for those - think food pick is ready/ RX is ready, etc.
We don't have that problem here because companies push notices through WhatsApp. You can do this in the US, too, Twilio supports it here.
Making people install unique apps for every vendor is ridiculous. Even in the US half the people I know have their phones full and constantly "can't do that" because they don't know how to clean off their phones from all their weird video games and crap people make them install that they think that they need. Needing to install an app for every restaurant, store, shopping experience, etc. that you deal with is absurd.
Texting isn't a terrible mechanism for that in the US. Doesn't work here, at all. But WhatsApp works for it great here (and anywhere, really.)
Well - everyone wants their own app, because they want the data.
If there was only one app, only that app owner would have the data.
Not true. Here there is "one app" and the app owner has no access to the data. SMS is the only major communications player today where the data goes somewhere other than the parties communicating.
uh - what?
WhatsApp has access to all data flowing through it - the metadata, who's communicating with whom - maybe they don't have the what - but they definitely know the who.
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
I wonder where the money comes from to pay for that?
This is easy...
- The money it takes to do this is trivial. You don't need to make much as it is so cheap.
- The entire business model of Facebook and Google is capturing traffic to get people to look at their ads or pay for ads. You can't do that without traffic. The only thing that matters to FB and Google is getting more customers, everything they do is dependent on that and they can't do that if those people leave their services because they can't afford the data.
It shouldn't be "I wonder how they pay for this" it should be "obviously every major internet company would want to do this because it's so clearly how you make services way more profitable."
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
I don't believe this at all. People use what is sold to them, not what is easiest. Hence why Windows is so popular. One one can claim it's easy compared to anything else, yet it is super popular. Why? Marketing. Easy to use means nothing to consumers.
Disagree, i find Windows a lot easier than Linux or MAC. But i think that's more to do with what i'm used to :).
Also find getting software to work out of the box easier. -
@hobbit666 said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
I don't believe this at all. People use what is sold to them, not what is easiest. Hence why Windows is so popular. One one can claim it's easy compared to anything else, yet it is super popular. Why? Marketing. Easy to use means nothing to consumers.
Disagree, i find Windows a lot easier than Linux or MAC. But i think that's more to do with what i'm used to :).
Also find getting software to work out of the box easier.Having gotten used to doesn't make it easier. It makes you used to doing something harder. If you started from scratch on both, I guarantee you'd find Windows obtuse and crazy difficult. The hardest part of transitioning people to Linux is making them believe it isn't hard like Windows and trying to do completely unnecessary tasks.
It's like taking people used to driving hand cranked, manual shift cars and giving them self driving cars. No doubt which is easier, but they get confused thinking that they "must" need to do hard things.
The software out of the box itself is a Windows problem. On Linux, 99% of the time the software is part of the OS. The need to get a "box" of software highlights how much harder Windows is in the first place, as an example.
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@scottalanmiller Again disagree but i'll keep my thoughts to my self as your view is the right one
I've tried a few times switching to Linux but always gone back to installs for the reason of finding apps and installing them to do what i need.
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@hobbit666 said in Why Do People Still Text:
@scottalanmiller Again disagree but i'll keep my thoughts to my self as your view is the right one
I've tried a few times switching to Linux but always gone back to installs for the reason of finding apps and installing them to do what i need.
Agreed - the software I often want is not included - like a graphics editor.
Today for the masses this is much less of an issue, 95% is done online. I think the bigger issue is peeling people off their old windows based software. some card making program, some old tax program, etc...
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Agreed - the software I often want is not included - like a graphics editor.
Gimp doesn't count?
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@dafyre said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Agreed - the software I often want is not included - like a graphics editor.
Gimp doesn't count?
is it pre-installed?
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@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dafyre said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
Agreed - the software I often want is not included - like a graphics editor.
Gimp doesn't count?
is it pre-installed?
Depends on the distro, but most desktop installations include it by default.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why Do People Still Text:
@obsolesce said in Why Do People Still Text:
@dashrender said in Why Do People Still Text:
they have a flip phone, so SMS isn't an option, but those people are so few that it doesn't affect the masses.
Huh? Every flip phone and service I've had in the 90s and early 2000s had SMS texting.
That was definitely not my experience. I've had cell service continuously since 1992 and did not get access to texting until more like 2002 and never sent or received a text until I would guess after 2006. But I had email on my phone before that and talked with loads of people because it was common in business then, because of Blackberry devices, to have email on the phones. ANd because texting was costly and rarely available, they had Blackberry messenger instead of texting on the devices. We didn't use it, but it was there.
Not my own experience. Texting was big for me and my circle back then, regardless of your experience. Besides the point though... Being a flip phone had nothing to do with SMS.
