Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@guyinpv said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@guyinpv said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
CV works pretty well in Zoho.
Because... Zoho
Ya their email is pretty nice, but CV is not without issues.
Sometimes, for example, when looking at an email, I want to delete it. It's hard to know what the delete is actually doing. Sometimes it will only delete the one email in the chain that I'm looking at. Other times it appears to delete the entire chain so the whole thing disappears. It seems inconsistent. Sometimes I want to delete the whole chain since it's not needed for anything, but I don't think Zoho is actually deleting all the received and sent emails in the chain, it might just be deleting the one I'm looking at, and then hiding the rest? I don't know really know how that works to be honest.
That's probably my underlying concern with CV across the board, it shows things in an abstracted way and it is very difficult as the human to understand what you are seeing and how it will react to actions you take.
Not at all difficult for me to understand and use effectively and efficiently.
Only once you learn a specific platform. But in general, for example, if you hit delete on a conversation... what does it do? Keep in mind, you have to answer for all systems, not just one. When we work without CV view, the answer is universal. But with CV, the answer varies.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
But in general, for example, if you hit delete on a conversation... what does it do?
Uh, it goes to the deleted folder. If it's accidental, move it back to inbox. If it's purposely done and needed a while later, still restorable. Know what you are deleting before you do it. Same thing if you delete a regular email. Same thing if you delete part of a conversation.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Uh, it goes to the deleted folder.
And "it" is not consistent. Hence the problem. The fact that you referred to a pronoun without antecedent is exactly the issue we have. The antecedent is what is in question. Does selecting a conversation select a conversation or an email within it?
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Know what you are deleting before you do it.
Exactly the question we are asking, how do you know? Especially as it is not consistent between systems.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Same thing if you delete a regular email.
That's the problem, it can't be the same. That's not possible. Because when you delete an email, there is no abstraction to question.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Uh, it goes to the deleted folder.
And "it" is not consistent. Hence the problem. The fact that you referred to a pronoun without antecedent is exactly the issue we have. The antecedent is what is in question. Does selecting a conversation select a conversation or an email within it?
It's completely consistent. You pick exactly what you want to delete... an individual email, or the entire thread. It's totally up to you. Same concept as on this site, either delete a post within a thread, or delete the entire thread.
I don't see how you are so confused by it. You must really have no experience using it and just totally hating on it. But even still, it's totally one's own preference. It's so not worth a discussion. It's a feature many people prefer. More who prefer it than don't in my experience.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I don't see how you are so confused by it. You must really have no experience using it and just totally hating on it.
Quite the reaction considering it wasn't even me that said it. But you missed the point, YOU say you select an email or a thread, but we know that the two are selected together so how do you define one or the other?
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
It's a feature many people prefer. More who prefer it than don't in my experience.
I've never encountered this. I know lots of people who use it, but only out of confusion. You aren't the only person that I've had say that they prefer it, but it is few and far between. Most people think that it is just some kind of screw up like the focused mailbox or clutter and it keeps coming back so they give up in despair.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
but we know that the two are selected together so how do you define one or the other?
Just as how a thread can be selected as a whole, or just a post in a thread can be selected.
You can delete the thread as a whole, or, you can delete emails in a thread individually at any time. They are not always selected together. Only if you do it that way.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
but we know that the two are selected together so how do you define one or the other?
Just as how a thread can be selected as a whole, or just a post in a thread can be selected.
You can delete the thread as a whole, or, you can delete emails in a thread individually at any time. They are not always selected together. Only if you do it that way.
Show that to me in Gmail please. I have no clue how you can select just one email.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
but we know that the two are selected together so how do you define one or the other?
Just as how a thread can be selected as a whole, or just a post in a thread can be selected.
You can delete the thread as a whole, or, you can delete emails in a thread individually at any time. They are not always selected together. Only if you do it that way.
Show that to me in Gmail please. I have no clue how you can select just one email.
This particular "thread" or "conversation", whatever you want to call it (MS calls it a Thread), has 4 emails in it.
I have selected the third one, and can choose to delete just that one.
At the top, the trash can symbol, I can delete the entire "thread" or "conversation", for from the list of emails I can select the thread as a whole and delete it there. In Outlook, in the list view, I can select the thread or "expand" it and select indivicual emails. Here, outlook is a bit better. But below is the Gmail as you asked.
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@Obsolesce okay, but when you select a message to read and you just hit the trash can, what does it do?
So you CAN dig into an individual email to clean it up, but that's clearly a lot of work. You have to expand them, track which one it is in a terrible interface, then go to a hamburger menu.
But the main trash can icon, the one intended to use, what does it refer to, the email you selected, the one you are reading currently, or something else?
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Don't know what to tell you. What's next, the font? Inverted vertical mouse movement?
I work how I work and it works better for me this way versus non-conversation view.
If it works better for you without, then by all means, continue without.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Don't know what to tell you. What's next, the font? Inverted vertical mouse movement?
I think "intuitive interface that does what is clear" is a pretty basic thing. You are making fun of "can't tell how it will behave". And I'm not sure if you even know. Who can answer reliably either what it DOES do or what is SHOULD do? I don't know the answer to either!
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I work how I work and it works better for me this way versus non-conversation view.
Except you don't know what it will delete unless you do a lot of work. It sounds like you are making it intentionally hard to prove a point. Without CV, everything "just works" and is fast, simple, straightforward, and I still see the context in an email. In fact, less repetition. CV is clearly adding a lot of work for you, too. Why put up with that risk and effort?
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
You are making fun of "can't tell how it will behave".
Not at all, period. There is no question about it for me. I still am unable to understand how you're still confused about it.
I know exactly what is selected and what gets deleted when it's selected, and where I click to do what. Exactly. No question. It's very intuitive, no question, crystal clear how it will behave.
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@scottalanmiller said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I work how I work and it works better for me this way versus non-conversation view.
Except you don't know what it will delete unless you do a lot of work. It sounds like you are making it intentionally hard to prove a point. Without CV, everything "just works" and is fast, simple, straightforward, and I still see the context in an email. In fact, less repetition. CV is clearly adding a lot of work for you, too. Why put up with that risk and effort?
That's the thing, I do know exactly what it will delete with zero work. I learned it years ago in like 10 seconds when it was first implemented. It does "just work" how it is, very straight forward, and no question about anything. You're doing all of this on purpose to try to prove some wieird point just because you prefer something else. it's just not the case. There is zero extra work involved. I click into the email to read it, regardless of the view. From there I i delete the email or the conversation.
Most of my emails are not part of conversations, though. Still many are, but most are not.
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
Not at all, period. There is no question about it for me. I still am unable to understand how you're still confused about it.
Because I asked a simple question about how you know you knew what was being deleted and you couldn't answer. I'm confused as to how that is possible, yet you find this usable. How do those two things overlap?
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
I know exactly what is selected and what gets deleted when it's selected, and where I click to do what. Exactly. No question. It's very intuitive, no question, crystal clear how it will behave.
If that is true, what's the answer to the question of what it SHOULD do and what it DOES do?
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@Obsolesce said in Does Anyone Actually Use Conversation View Intentionally for Email:
That's the thing, I do know exactly what it will delete with zero work.
They why can't you tell me? I asked how you could do it and you had to avoid the standard tools and do something complex and cumbersome to make it seem possible, if not usable. What does the intended deletion button actually do?
