Visual Studio Community 2013
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@garak0410 said:
I was digging into their Q&A since this audit. Saw open source was the key to it...can an internal business app by "open source"?
Yes, but is the company okay with the code getting out? If someone were to release the application the company would have no recourse as it licensed it and will be held to that license in court by Microsoft. So you can, but I doubt that you would want to.
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@scottalanmiller said:
In a small organization it looks like you might be allowed to use it...
Here’s how Visual Studio Community can be used in organizations:
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An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects.
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For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to 5 users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1MM in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above.
Yeah Scott...was looking at that and was thinking we could use this and I'll be compliant with my audit...I am really looking to see if this includes LIGHTSWITCH...if this is indeed Full Professional, I am assuming it does...
If we don't "sell" our internal applications, guessing it is OK for us to use. We fit the less than 250 PC's...
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@scottalanmiller said:
@garak0410 said:
I was digging into their Q&A since this audit. Saw open source was the key to it...can an internal business app by "open source"?
Yes, but is the company okay with the code getting out? If someone were to release the application the company would have no recourse as it licensed it and will be held to that license in court by Microsoft. So you can, but I doubt that you would want to.
More to think about as I was about to pop down $600 for VS 2013 Pro for our audit compliance...
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The biggest caveat is that this is Visual Studio. Don't let this tool, just because it is free, make you make .NET-only software. The reason that this is free is to encourage small companies to do foolish things, like lock their application platforms into .NET. .NET is great and you get awesome languages like C# and F# but unless you really, really understand how you are limiting yourself for the future you will not want to go down this route. This is not likely something that any normal business should want to use.
If you are a software development house or really know what you are doing, C# and F# can be awesome choices. But if you don't know how their limitations will affect you for decades to come you could easily be making dangerous decisions that seem trivial today.
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@garak0410 said:
If we don't "sell" our internal applications, guessing it is OK for us to use. We fit the less than 250 PC's...
Likely. But just because it is "free" doesn't mean that the TCO isn't huge.
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@garak0410 said:
More to think about as I was about to pop down $600 for VS 2013 Pro for our audit compliance...
Why are you, as a non-enterprise, even contemplating using Visual Studio?
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@garak0410 said:
Yeah Scott...was looking at that and was thinking we could use this and I'll be compliant with my audit...I am really looking to see if this includes LIGHTSWITCH...if this is indeed Full Professional, I am assuming it does...
Sadly, I'm sure that it does. Lightswitch is awful. It's nothing but a sales tool to push Silverlight, which is dead now.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@garak0410 said:
More to think about as I was about to pop down $600 for VS 2013 Pro for our audit compliance...
Why are you, as a non-enterprise, even contemplating using Visual Studio?
Because I am honestly clueless as to what direction to go when I finally have time to develop around here...full Microsoft Office Shop so either I stay with ACCESS and VBA with some SQL backends or move to ASP.NET like many have told me over the years. I've also used LightSwitch which is easy in a pinch but based on the dying Sliverlight.
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@garak0410 said:
Because I am honestly clueless as to what direction to go when I finally have time to develop around here...full Microsoft Office Shop so either I stay with ACCESS and VBA with some SQL backends or move to ASP.NET like many have told me over the years. I've also used LightSwitch which is easy in a pinch but based on the dying Sliverlight.
I don't follow the logic here. Working with MS Office, Access and VBA is one thing. Using ASP.NET and SQL Server are unrelated. Why would using the former make you consider the later? I don't understand how the one led you to the other.
VBA makes sense as it is the only option for Office automation. Once you go to web apps, why does any of that matter?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@garak0410 said:
Because I am honestly clueless as to what direction to go when I finally have time to develop around here...full Microsoft Office Shop so either I stay with ACCESS and VBA with some SQL backends or move to ASP.NET like many have told me over the years. I've also used LightSwitch which is easy in a pinch but based on the dying Sliverlight.
I don't follow the logic here. Working with MS Office, Access and VBA is one thing. Using ASP.NET and SQL Server are unrelated. Why would using the former make you consider the later? I don't understand how the one led you to the other.
VBA makes sense as it is the only option for Office automation. Once you go to web apps, why does any of that matter?
Again, honest ignorance...thought I needed Visual Studio to aid in web/browser based internal applications...
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@garak0410 said:
Again, honest ignorance...thought I needed Visual Studio to aid in web/browser based internal applications...
It sounds like circular reasoning. We chose VS because we chose VS. You are an all MS shop because you chose all MS.
I would step back and look at actual needs. Likely you are tying yourself to an expensive ship without reason.
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Once you go to web apps, one of the key value propositions is that you are no longer tied to any platform. You are free. You can keep using MS everywhere, but you don't have to. You can lower your dependence on things that get you audited. You don't need a CAL for every user of applications that you write yourself. You can lower cost, improve reliability and flexibility.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Once you go to web apps, one of the key value propositions is that you are no longer tied to any platform. You are free. You can keep using MS everywhere, but you don't have to. You can lower your dependence on things that get you audited. You don't need a CAL for every user of applications that you write yourself. You can lower cost, improve reliability and flexibility.
Good advice...I've always been intimidated by the development side of this job...going on 4 years here and while I have their absolute confidence and trust (and nice raises and bonuses), the time will come to really start producing here. And I'll just get down to basics...we are Excel heavy and may always be...I need to quit putting the horse behind the cart and just focus on where we are now. Excel, VBA and SQL. Get proficient on those things and then learn other dev skills so we can move to more robust platforms in the future...
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You have Excel as a SQL front end, I am guessing?
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@scottalanmiller said:
You have Excel as a SQL front end, I am guessing?
Yes...on many of our spreadsheets...primarily, SQL is used for Dynamics Great Plains 2010. Secondary, it holds parts for our manufacturing program and also contact information for our estimates and sales. With the latter all being Excel front ends.
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I would look at the possibility of anything new going to PostgreSQL and only use MS SQL Server when you have to. Yes that's two things to maintain but the cost savings might be big over time.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I would look at the possibility of anything new going to PostgreSQL and only use MS SQL Server when you have to. Yes that's two things to maintain but the cost savings might be big over time.
Adding to list...my goal is to make 2014 the "year of development" (why does that make me think of the movie, 2010: The Year We Make Contact... :bowtie: )...going to try to close out 2014 of all lingering "admin" issues and then just maintain those "admin" issues and gear toward development. And hitting the books too...no gaming! (like I get to anyway!)
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Look at Python as a general purpose language going forward. Super flexible, easy to use and can run on anything.
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Python is almost always a good option.
