Remote Desktop Services - How To Get Started?
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@Reid-Cooper said:
@Dashrender I do not believe that RDS is needed for a single user of any function. The server should act as a desktop here allowing for one user, at any time, to use the server as a desktop or desktop-like machine. It is because of this that RDS licensing is not needed when using Microsoft's Datacenter licensing in a one to one user ratio for VDI.
If it was a physical server I would completely understand - or if you gave the user access to the Vsphere client. But if the user is using any other method to access that server, they'd be accessing it through something covered by RDS licensing.
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@Dashrender said:
If it was a physical server I would completely understand - or if you gave the user access to the Vsphere client. But if the user is using any other method to access that server, they'd be accessing it through something covered by RDS licensing.
I don't believe that that is true both because of other licensing reasons (console access, VNC, RDP, etc. are all covered in the same way and there is no means of accessing physical or virtual that bypasses that) and because even Microsoft themselves have stated that the mode I mentioned above bypasses the VDI licensing requirements because it is one to one.
All Windows systems, even desktops, have always allowed a single RDP session for a local user, of any type, to access the system remotely. That the system is physical or virtual, and what protocol is used have never been factors in that licensing. If they were, LogMeIn, VNC and others would be problematic as well.
RDS only applies to more than a single user at the same time. So it applies in a lot of cases, but not in a one to one.
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@Reid-Cooper I thought I mentioned (maybe it was another thread) that I could be wrong on the first two sessions which are allowed for administration purposes.
Server versions don't have the same wording that workstation OSs do, i.e. Workstations installed in a VM must either be used locally (as in installed on your desktop and used only on that desktop) or else they require VDI or SA to access them. Servers do not have this requirement.
So, if you limit it to two users, perhaps you are allowed to use a Windows Server OS as a workstation and bypass the VDI requirements.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
@Dashrender I do not believe that RDS is needed for a single user of any function. The server should act as a desktop here allowing for one user, at any time, to use the server as a desktop or desktop-like machine. It is because of this that RDS licensing is not needed when using Microsoft's Datacenter licensing in a one to one user ratio for VDI.
This was who I understood it as well. RDP was a one-to-one type of interface where RDS was many-to-one/many type of interface. Otherwise wouldn't you be breaking your licensing every time you remote in to do admin tasks on a non-windows server software?
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@Dashrender said:
@Reid-Cooper I thought I mentioned (maybe it was another thread) that I could be wrong on the first two sessions which are allowed for administration purposes.
The second one is definitely only for administration. But my understanding is that the first is always open to any user. Otherwise it would stop you from ever being able to use a server as a desktop, which has always been allowed.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
@Dashrender said:
@Reid-Cooper I thought I mentioned (maybe it was another thread) that I could be wrong on the first two sessions which are allowed for administration purposes.
The second one is definitely only for administration. But my understanding is that the first is always open to any user. Otherwise it would stop you from ever being able to use a server as a desktop, which has always been allowed.
I'll disagree with the entirely!
You can log in locally, when installed on raw hardware - and use that as a desktop any way you like... but virtualize it... all bets are off and I have no idea what the rules really are.
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@Dashrender said:
I'll disagree with the entirely!
You can log in locally, when installed on raw hardware - and use that as a desktop any way you like... but virtualize it... all bets are off and I have no idea what the rules really are.
There is a virtualization change for VDI when using the workstation licensing. My understanding is that this does not, and never has, applied to servers. Servers, unlike the desktops, have a license for one user of any type, one additional admin user and the option to license more via RDS. I've never heard of there being any other restriction and Microsoft themselves have recommended these use cases so I find it unlikely that it is incorrect.
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Do you have a link to MS stating the remote sessions are 1 for whatever use and one for admin use? I'd love to have that link in my back pocket.
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You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
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@coliver said:
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
That looks pretty cut and dry to me. So much for using Windows Server OSs as a way to skirt around VDI.
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@coliver said:
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances. In the case of Windows Server 2012 only, you do not need a CAL to access an
instance of the server software running on the physical OSE that is being used solely to:
- list item run hardware virtualization software,
- list item provide hardware virtualization services,
- list itemor, run software to manage and service operating system environments on the licensed server.
However, you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server.
Not sure if that helps clear it up at all. Looks like you do need proper licensing in a virtual environment.
Isn't that a reference to Server CALs? Where does RDS come into play here?
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@Dashrender said:
That looks pretty cut and dry to me. So much for using Windows Server OSs as a way to skirt around VDI.
I must have missed something. Where do you see that?
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you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server
I don't read this as limiting to only Windows Server CALs, but any kind of CAL needed for access.
Furthermore,
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances.This would preclude you from running a desktop like app, say Office for example, and using the two RDS instances without an RDS license.
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@Dashrender said:
you do need the appropriate CAL to access instances of the server software in any virtual OSEs on the server
I don't read this as limiting to only Windows Server CALs, but any kind of CAL needed for access.
But it is just about Server CALs. Especially as that is the only kind needed for access. This is anything but cut and dry, in fact it implies that opposite of what you are thinking. It only states what we should have already known, server CALs were always required for using server resources and RDS CALs have never applies outside of RDS. RDP for one user is not RDS.
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@Dashrender said:
Furthermore,
You do not need CALs for up to two devices or users to access your instances as long as these users or devices are
only administering the instances.This would preclude you from running a desktop like app, say Office for example, and using the two RDS instances without an RDS license.
It does not say that in any way. It says that you can skip having Server CALs if you are using accounts for no purpose other than system administration. How are you associating RDS with this? Why not SQL Server or Exchange CALs? They also are not in use here but are CAL for products that can be added to Server.
How is RDS getting involved here at all?
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I think that there might be just a general confusion about what is a Server CAL (the CALs in discussion in the server docs) and what other CALs, like RDS, are.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
I think that there might be just a general confusion about what is a Server CAL (the CALs in discussion in the server docs) and what other CALs, like RDS, are.
I do understand the difference.
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@Dashrender said:
I do understand the difference.
But you are applying RDS when Server CALs are mentioned. Microsoft's docs say Server CALs and then you read that as RDS CALs. I'm unsure why you feel RDS is even in the discussion let alone a cut and dry requirement when it isn't even mentioned at all. If it was required, it seems like Microsoft would have brought it up since they took the time to document that Server CALs were needed. That a completely unrelated CAL would be needed and that there is no way to guess that it would even apply seems like something that would need to be brought up.
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From TechNet from March, 2014: "It is also worth pointing out that RDS CALs are required in a VDI deployment when any of the RDS components are used to support it (e.g. Remote Desktop Web Access, Remote Desktop Gateway, Remote Desktop Connection Broker, Remote Desktop Session Host, or the Remote Desktop Virtualization Host."
So since RDS is not in use, RDS CALs are not needed. Seems pretty cut and dry that RDS is not involved, right?
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The OP mentioned installing a Server VM - if not RDS/RDP how will he be accessing the server? you're probably going to say through Logmein or VNC. I'm saying that it's my belief that you can't use any connection method in the 'free' status for any purpose other than administration.
The instant you install desktop application for use (we'll continue to use Office as an example) you must pay for a connection method, and since the server is virtualized, you must buy a RDS license or VDI license.
