question about setting up a new domain controller
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@zachary715 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Yeah we're not paying that, all I can say is that the price was lower than Microsoft direct... significantly enough that we bothered to make the switch. It REALLY adds up over hundreds of users.
As @Dashrender mentioned, MS pricing on these packages tend to jump around. I would just make sure that AppRiver's pricing is moving around with it, especially with a price drop.
Other than the Business Premium price (which has been $12.50 for a while) I haven't seen the MS list prices changing on these much at all.
The first few years it was rolling out, I would check prices time to time and it seemed to jump around as they were adding and removing features. Maybe it has stabilized now that they have all their packages configured how they want them.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@zachary715 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Yeah we're not paying that, all I can say is that the price was lower than Microsoft direct... significantly enough that we bothered to make the switch. It REALLY adds up over hundreds of users.
As @Dashrender mentioned, MS pricing on these packages tend to jump around. I would just make sure that AppRiver's pricing is moving around with it, especially with a price drop.
Other than the Business Premium price (which has been $12.50 for a while) I haven't seen the MS list prices changing on these much at all.
E3 through MS used to be $25.
E1 through MS used to be $15 i think. Don't remember.
But this is what it is now through MS direct:
And this is what it is now through AppRiver direct... though only if you go through their website, which from my experience is significanly more expensive than through an AppRiver partner or whatever you call it:
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
And the pricing right there shows that it's higher for all plans vs buying direct from MS.
But, if what Scott claims is true, that anyone not selling at exactly the same as MS is a VAR, not a partner, but if they are selling at the same, they could be either.
I don't personally know this to be true, but it definitely seems likely.
No it shows the E3 plan through MS is slightly cheaper than the E3 plan through APpRiver... but that's if you do it throught he AppRiver website.
If you go through soemone else like we did, it's significantly cheaper than the website says.
I'm sure you're right. I happen to be an Appriver Reseller (from my days as a ITSP 10+ years ago)... Sure I can sell you O365 via Appriver, and I get a piece of that pie, just like Appriver does... VAR relationship for sure.
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@zachary715 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@zachary715 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Yeah we're not paying that, all I can say is that the price was lower than Microsoft direct... significantly enough that we bothered to make the switch. It REALLY adds up over hundreds of users.
As @Dashrender mentioned, MS pricing on these packages tend to jump around. I would just make sure that AppRiver's pricing is moving around with it, especially with a price drop.
Other than the Business Premium price (which has been $12.50 for a while) I haven't seen the MS list prices changing on these much at all.
The first few years it was rolling out, I would check prices time to time and it seemed to jump around as they were adding and removing features. Maybe it has stabilized now that they have all their packages configured how they want them.
This seems likely, yeah I too recall the jumping prices back in the early days.
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At the end of the day, what it came down to is this:
- We keep our existing O365 E3 and E1 subscriptions
- There are no interruptions
- Our O365 monthly payment is now thousands less
- We no longer pay MS, we pay someone else.
- We can switch back to paying MS any time we want.
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Look at the ruckus I've caused.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@zachary715 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Yeah we're not paying that, all I can say is that the price was lower than Microsoft direct... significantly enough that we bothered to make the switch. It REALLY adds up over hundreds of users.
As @Dashrender mentioned, MS pricing on these packages tend to jump around. I would just make sure that AppRiver's pricing is moving around with it, especially with a price drop.
Other than the Business Premium price (which has been $12.50 for a while) I haven't seen the MS list prices changing on these much at all.
E3 through MS used to be $25.
E1 through MS used to be $15 i think. Don't remember.
But this is what it is now through MS direct:
And this is what it is now through AppRiver direct... though only if you go through their website, which from my experience is significanly more expensive than through an AppRiver partner or whatever you call it:yep, all significantly more expensive list price (though that doesn't say if it's annual commitment or monthly cost) vs MS. Every plan there is more expensive. And I agree, if you use their VAR program, you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (not likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to the fact it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
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@dave247 said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
Hi guys I have kind of a noob question..
I have two 2008 R2 domain controllers: DC1 and DC2 (one physical one virtual), and an on-prem Exchange 2010 (SP3) server in my environment. I think I've learned enough now where I'm comfortable setting up a new domain controller and replacing an old one but I still technically haven't done it yet.
I would like to set up a 2012 R2 domain controller to replace the physical 2008 R2 domain controller, DC1. DC1 is the primary DNS server that everything in the environment looks to, and so I want to make sure everything gets replaced with the new IP address.
Note: I am going 2012 R2 DC right now because it's the highest I can go with having Exchange 2010 SP3 running. I will eventually be going to Exchange 2016 and then at that point I can make a 2016 DC.
The main thing I'm wondering about is if I can simply set up the new 2012 R2 server, promote it to domain controller, and then one by one point my servers and all the other statically mapped systems to it, without experiencing any disruptions. And right now DHCP is being controlled by the physical DC but of course that would be trivial to replace once I get the new 2012 R2 DC up and running. I really just want to be able to make the transition without disruption.
Is this pretty much the way to do it?
I just went through a DC upgrade myself over the holidays. We already used hosted Exchange so I wasn't worried about any issues there.
I have two DCs .10 and .15, with .10 holding FSMO roles and being DHCP server. I first transferred FSMO roles to the .15 server and gave it a day or two. I downloaded the AD Replication Status Tool and verified replication was working as intended.
On a weekend/holiday, I then demoted .10 as DC and changed its IP Address to .11 (this was also our file server so it was staying online a while longer until we migrate it to 2016). I then went into DNS and ensured that all the records were properly updated/removed before proceeding.
I then changed the IP Address of the new DC to .10 and promoted it as DC, DNS, DHCP. Again, I ensured that replication was working properly and that DNS records all got properly updated. Then I backed up my DHCP scope and migrated it to the new DC, and removed DHCP and DNS roles from old DC.
I think I've read in a recent post here that setting up with same IP as old DC isn't recommended, however, I've done it twice now over the years without issue. I would say if you are going the route you mentioned which is to give DC new IP and update this manually across your devices, take the time to make these DHCP reservations so that in the future, all you have to do is update your DHCP scope with the new config and when it renews the leases all the devices will get the updated info automatically.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
I'm not seeing the relationship.
Everythign is still Microsoft... Microsoft E1/E3 licenses, Microsoft products, and Microsoft services.
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the movie theatre itself. We know the tickets (licenses) are not fake, so what's the risk?
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
Not really, just find some dude who sells AppRiver O365 E1/E3 (or whatever you need) licenses cheaper than the AppRiver website lists them for, that are also cheaper than MS sells them for directly.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the Movie Theatre itself. We know the licenses (tickets) are not fake, so what's the risk?
This is your assumption. But we know that people who buy O365 from places like GoDaddy and RackSpace are not getting the same movie ticket as someone who goes directly to the box office. Instead, to extend your analogy, it would be like getting a ticket to a special room at the back of the movie theater where you still get to see the movie, but only through the view that bulk buyer allows (perhaps the bulk buyer doesn't give you anything but mono sound), etc.
But, If AppRiver is able to give you actual discounts, yet not be in a situation like the bulk buyer, but instead give you a ticket 100% identical to those buying from the box office - then you've found a rare setup.
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@Tim_G
Who did you move away from when you moved to Appriver?Where they an O365 provider? or where they locally hosted Exchange? as in their DC, not yours.
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@Tim_G
Who did you move away from when you moved to Appriver?Where they an O365 provider? or where they locally hosted Exchange? as in their DC, not yours.
We were bought and paid through MS directly. When we switched to AppRiver, nothing changed on the back end, just costs and who the check goes to.
Still the same old O365 back-end and admin panel on O365.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@Tim_G
Who did you move away from when you moved to Appriver?Where they an O365 provider? or where they locally hosted Exchange? as in their DC, not yours.
We were bought and paid through MS directly. When we switched to AppRiver, nothing changed on the back end, just costs and who the check goes to.
Still the same old O365 back-end and admin panel on O365.
Interesting.. I wonder if that worked because you were already an O365 account... so you found a way to break the mold as it were... again, putting yourself in a rare situation.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
Not really, just find some dude who sells AppRiver O365 E1/E3 (or whatever you need) licenses cheaper than the AppRiver website lists them for, that are also cheaper than MS sells them for directly.
That's not direct, though. MS no longer has control of your data, AppRiver owns you. MS isn't allowed to vary the prices for their system. There is no volume discount for partners.
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@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
I'm not seeing the relationship.
Everythign is still Microsoft... Microsoft E1/E3 licenses, Microsoft products, and Microsoft services.
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the movie theatre itself. We know the tickets (licenses) are not fake, so what's the risk?
No, MS doesn't offer bulk discounts. Something here changed. If you got a discount, AppRiver controls your access to Microsoft.
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@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
I'm not seeing the relationship.
Everythign is still Microsoft... Microsoft E1/E3 licenses, Microsoft products, and Microsoft services.
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the movie theatre itself. We know the tickets (licenses) are not fake, so what's the risk?
No, MS doesn't offer bulk discounts. Something here changed. If you got a discount, AppRiver controls your access to Microsoft.
How can you prove this?
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@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@scottalanmiller said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@tim_g said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
@dashrender said in question about setting up a new domain controller:
you'll likely get the better pricing.. but you're stuck with the VAR issues.
What issues do we face now? Nothing changed except the amount of money we pay, and who we make the check out to...
So until MS lowers their direct pricing enough to offset the savings we have now (very unliely to ever happen), or the cost of AppRiver subscriptions go up (no likely if they want our money), I don't see any downside... especially due to it's as easy as flipping a switch to go back to MS direct.
Well, this is a case like having a single SAN and believing your have redundancy - you might never have issues, cause you just might get lucky for the life of the product, but, if you're not lucky, and you have to exercise the migration process for some reason, or need support and Appriver can't/won't help you.. you're stuck.
If, IF it's truly as easy as a switch to flip back (countless stories on other sites disagree, but not specifically for Appriver), then I'd say you got some kinda of awesome rare deal.
I'm not seeing the relationship.
Everythign is still Microsoft... Microsoft E1/E3 licenses, Microsoft products, and Microsoft services.
I'm basically buying a movie ticket through someone else instead of the movie theatre itself... someone else being someone who got a bulk discount and can sell them cheaper than the movie theatre itself. We know the tickets (licenses) are not fake, so what's the risk?
No, MS doesn't offer bulk discounts. Something here changed. If you got a discount, AppRiver controls your access to Microsoft.
How can you prove this?
Because MS says so
If you look at AppRiver's site, they say that the support comes from AppRiver. They might allow pass through to Microsoft, but I bet that they don't. If you call MS for support, I bet MS redirects you.
