What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?
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@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
So your wife hates the idea of having a true cinematic experience at home? Surround sound is all wrong when you leave out the .1 part.
Yeah, it's kind of needed as it is the effects channel.
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Assuming the audio mixers mix the sound with the expectation of a center channel - how does that audio get blended to the mains?
By not blending it that way, obviously.
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
yeah wives never like subs for some reason
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
So your wife hates the idea of having a true cinematic experience at home? Surround sound is all wrong when you leave out the .1 part.
My wife couldn't see any difference when we upgraded to HD TV.. she finally admitted a noticeable difference going to 4K.
That makes no sense and implies she thinks that she can just lie to you. The jump from SD to HD was massively more visible to the eye than the jump from 1080p to 4K.
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
yeah wives never like subs for some reason
Mine sure likes having them. She wants the windows to rattle.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Assuming the audio mixers mix the sound with the expectation of a center channel - how does that audio get blended to the mains?
By not blending it that way, obviously.
Educate me then, don't just stand there and tell me I'm wrong.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
yeah wives never like subs for some reason
Mine sure likes having them. She wants the windows to rattle.
Lucky bum!
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Assuming the audio mixers mix the sound with the expectation of a center channel - how does that audio get blended to the mains?
By not blending it that way, obviously.
Educate me then, don't just stand there and tell me I'm wrong.
Like many things we discuss. You assume X will happen and you wonder how we can fix the issue caused by it. I point out that you have a false assumption and that X will not happen. Then you tell me that that is not helpful. Then we go round and round and eventually you realize what I said and realize that it explained everything in one sentence.
Your base assumption is false, ergo there is nothing to explain other than that one thing.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
So your wife hates the idea of having a true cinematic experience at home? Surround sound is all wrong when you leave out the .1 part.
My wife couldn't see any difference when we upgraded to HD TV.. she finally admitted a noticeable difference going to 4K.
That makes no sense and implies she thinks that she can just lie to you. The jump from SD to HD was massively more visible to the eye than the jump from 1080p to 4K.
yep your absolutely right, it will proabbaly be the largest jump we will ever see
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
yeah wives never like subs for some reason
Mine sure likes having them. She wants the windows to rattle.
Lucky bum!
geez if my wife hears it she just leaves
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@jmoore said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
So your wife hates the idea of having a true cinematic experience at home? Surround sound is all wrong when you leave out the .1 part.
My wife couldn't see any difference when we upgraded to HD TV.. she finally admitted a noticeable difference going to 4K.
That makes no sense and implies she thinks that she can just lie to you. The jump from SD to HD was massively more visible to the eye than the jump from 1080p to 4K.
yep your absolutely right, it will proabbaly be the largest jump we will ever see
SD lasted for SO long. It's ridiculous that it never got updated. I mean, it kind of did, with colour. But still.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it
My current system is 2 in wall B&W front wall speakers and a B&W in wall center channel. I have a pair of rears, I added them last year, don't recall the brand. I don't have a sub yet. Wife is not looking forward to me adding one.
So your wife hates the idea of having a true cinematic experience at home? Surround sound is all wrong when you leave out the .1 part.
My wife couldn't see any difference when we upgraded to HD TV.. she finally admitted a noticeable difference going to 4K.
That makes no sense and implies she thinks that she can just lie to you. The jump from SD to HD was massively more visible to the eye than the jump from 1080p to 4K.
While it's always possible that she was lying, not sure what she would have to gain by it. The purchase was already made, lying would only serve to possible make me feel bad about the purchase - again a possibility, but then, why be with me if her goal is to make me feel bad?
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Disagreed. I've tested it extensively, with many setups, many different speakers. For surround sound encoded TV/movies, excluding the center channel makes me need to turn on captioning because the front center dialog disappears. You certainly don't want the center channel cranked up, but I have zero complaints about clarity, blending, or sound placement in my current setup. Without the center, you mostly just get the reverb from the dialog, which makes it washy and hard to distinguish.
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Center channels are simply a mono channel, nothing more. Mono is played through stereo speakers by sending the channel to both speakers evenly. It's the simplest processing in audio, you can do it with wires alone by hand. All processors when they don't detect a center channel or it is disabled simply send the center channel to the fronts. That's the entirety of the processes involved in removing a center channel.
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@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Disagreed. I've tested it extensively, with many setups, many different speakers. For surround sound encoded TV/movies, excluding the center channel makes me need to turn on captioning because the front center dialog disappears. You certainly don't want the center channel cranked up, but I have zero complaints about clarity, blending, or sound placement in my current setup. Without the center, you mostly just get the reverb from the dialog, which makes it washy and hard to distinguish.
The center cannot, it's impossible, have the same placement as the fronts. There is no way to make it sound as good with a center. It's impossible. You can make it "good", but you can't make it "as good".
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
you have a false assumption and that X will not happen. Then you tell me that that is not helpful. Then we go round and round
/sigh - ok my assumption was that the audio has to be blended into the mains.
OK sir - please, inform me where the speech track will come from so we can hear it if there is no center channel?
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
you have a false assumption and that X will not happen. Then you tell me that that is not helpful. Then we go round and round
/sigh - ok my assumption was that the audio has to be blended into the mains.
OK sir - please, inform me where the speech track will come from so we can hear it if there is no center channel?
The fronts, of course. The things that produce all of the sound. The ones pointed at your ears instead of at your face. The ones that, in theory, have equal placement so that they have matching colour.
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You don't have a center on any normal system, where does the dialogue come from? Everything you use in normal life from headphones to televisions to stereo systems plays mono channels through both stereo channels.
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@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Disagreed. I've tested it extensively, with many setups, many different speakers. For surround sound encoded TV/movies, excluding the center channel makes me need to turn on captioning because the front center dialog disappears. You certainly don't want the center channel cranked up, but I have zero complaints about clarity, blending, or sound placement in my current setup. Without the center, you mostly just get the reverb from the dialog, which makes it washy and hard to distinguish.
The center cannot, it's impossible, have the same placement as the fronts. There is no way to make it sound as good with a center. It's impossible. You can make it "good", but you can't make it "as good".
Well then, like Rojo I must have shit equipment. When my center channel was out for a while, I had a hell of a time hearing the speech track - it was washed out, at best even with the other sounds, but generally much more muted, meaning I had to turn the volume up higher than normal to hear the talking.
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@dashrender said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@rojoloco said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
@scottalanmiller said in What do you like for a non expensive audio setup for surround sound TV/movies?:
Simple surround sound improvement tip... if you don't need it due to crappy seating, simply remove the center speaker for improved sound quality. The extra center channel is the biggest source of audio quality loss in those setups.
Well.... it's a detriment to 2 channel music. I would recommend getting a center channel that is a grade or two better than the other speakers, because that's where the dialog comes out when you're watching TV/movies. Placement is still key, so it depends on the seating arrangement as Scott said. But if you can mount all the speakers in the "right" places, a good center channel will improve things greatly.
My surround system has 4x Polk towers, 1x dual 6" + tweeter center, also Polk, and 1x Polk 150w / 12 inch powered sub. My cheap Harmon/Kardon receiver is soon to be replaced because the display died. Music system is an old Fisher receiver/amp (cheap and sounds amazing), some old JVC 3-way towers with 12" woofers and an old pair of Castle Durhams (audiophile grade bookshelf speakers from UK. I picked them up for $100 because they're beat up and they didn't know what they had).
Even that the voice comes from there, you want it as high quality as possible and the center channel detracts from that. The human ear doesn't work in such a way as to make it sound better even with the speaker, even with the intention of it coming from there. You can get better blending and clarity from removing the speaker.
Disagreed. I've tested it extensively, with many setups, many different speakers. For surround sound encoded TV/movies, excluding the center channel makes me need to turn on captioning because the front center dialog disappears. You certainly don't want the center channel cranked up, but I have zero complaints about clarity, blending, or sound placement in my current setup. Without the center, you mostly just get the reverb from the dialog, which makes it washy and hard to distinguish.
The center cannot, it's impossible, have the same placement as the fronts. There is no way to make it sound as good with a center. It's impossible. You can make it "good", but you can't make it "as good".
Well then, like Rojo I must have shit equipment. When my center channel was out for a while, I had a hell of a time hearing the speech track - it was washed out, at best even with the other sounds, but generally much more muted, meaning I had to turn the volume up higher than normal to hear the talking.
Did you tell the system that your center was out? Or did you have it set to continue sending the dialogue to an amp that wasn't powering a speaker so that was filtered out from the audio?
I've done this a lot, it's always better, always. Take any setup, remove the center (really remove it, don't just unplug it) and it improves.
