Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Spiceworks is just a big bunch of adverts wrapped up inside a "community". And there are so many community members who are clearly shills for vendor x, y, or z that it makes most of the material there useless.
If someone is a paid shrill, (Or works for them) you can report it. I've gotten easily 2 dozen accounts banned for this over the years.
The mods there don't hate you as much as they hate me. In fact, bad vendor behavior (and me calling them out) is the very reason they (David Bass) had such a hard on to ban me. So, while you can report stuff and blah blah blah, I cannot.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Spiceworks is just a big bunch of adverts wrapped up inside a "community". And there are so many community members who are clearly shills for vendor x, y, or z that it makes most of the material there useless.
If someone is a paid shrill, (Or works for them) you can report it. I've gotten easily 2 dozen accounts banned for this over the years.
Problem is they require that you prove their remuneration. Which of course you can’t. So while you can report, it does very little in most cases.
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@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Spiceworks is just a big bunch of adverts wrapped up inside a "community". And there are so many community members who are clearly shills for vendor x, y, or z that it makes most of the material there useless.
If someone is a paid shrill, (Or works for them) you can report it. I've gotten easily 2 dozen accounts banned for this over the years.
Problem is they require that you prove their remuneration. Which of course you can’t. So while you can report, it does very little in most cases.
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A shocking amount of them are stupid and post their real name which can be matched against linked in.
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If they use language that clearly wouldn't be used by someone who works in IT (Product marketing people with no IT experience are TRIVIAL to spot for their use of buzzwords, avoiding of questions, and lack of understanding the nuance or state of the discussion).
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IP Address logs. Match them against known accounts who were tagged as the company, or if they are using a known VPN exit gateaway to post.
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Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
The storage group used to have a bad sock puppet problem, but it's largely been calmed down.
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@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Spiceworks is just a big bunch of adverts wrapped up inside a "community". And there are so many community members who are clearly shills for vendor x, y, or z that it makes most of the material there useless.
If someone is a paid shrill, (Or works for them) you can report it. I've gotten easily 2 dozen accounts banned for this over the years.
The mods there don't hate you as much as they hate me. In fact, bad vendor behavior (and me calling them out) is the very reason they (David Bass) had such a hard on to ban me. So, while you can report stuff and blah blah blah, I cannot.
They are a private, for-profit company. They can certainly ban you for being a dick, or having an impact on their revenue. I would actually be confused with them if they didn't (They need to make money, return value to share holders etc).
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- If they use language that clearly wouldn't be used by someone who works in IT (Product marketing people with no IT experience are TRIVIAL to spot for their use of buzzwords, avoiding of questions, and lack of understanding the nuance or state of the discussion).
This definitely does not do it. That happens all the time.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
This also has not worked outside of the Proxmox and some limited cases. I catch this from time to time and often really obvious sock puppets are allowed to stay.
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@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
This also has not worked outside of the Proxmox and some limited cases. I catch this from time to time and often really obvious sock puppets are allowed to stay.
Have you reported them to the group admins...
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Spiceworks is just a big bunch of adverts wrapped up inside a "community". And there are so many community members who are clearly shills for vendor x, y, or z that it makes most of the material there useless.
If someone is a paid shrill, (Or works for them) you can report it. I've gotten easily 2 dozen accounts banned for this over the years.
The mods there don't hate you as much as they hate me. In fact, bad vendor behavior (and me calling them out) is the very reason they (David Bass) had such a hard on to ban me. So, while you can report stuff and blah blah blah, I cannot.
They are a private, for-profit company. They can certainly ban you for being a dick, or having an impact on their revenue. I would actually be confused with them if they didn't (They need to make money, return value to share holders etc).
Sure, except that they specifically tell the community to report bad vendor behavior, but only allow certain people to do it. I've seen plenty of other posts about vendor behavior where they were being total dicks, threatening the revenue stream, etc, but they don't get banned. Their system of moderation is way too uneven and dependent on the particular mod. No consistency whatsoever.
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@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
Sure, except that they specifically tell the community to report bad vendor behavior, but only allow certain people to do it.
Anyone can report behavior. Is the option grey'd out for you or something? That sounds like a bug.
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@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
I've seen plenty of other posts about vendor behavior where they were being total dicks, threatening the revenue stream, etc, but they don't get banned. Their system of moderation is way too uneven and dependent on the particular mod. No consistency whatsoever.
. The moderation team is mostly volunteers, who are from all over the world with different cultures etc, so interpretation of rules may vary slightly. Throw in the fact that some forums (Virtualization, Storage, Soapbox) have custom rules in the form of a sticky. You can escalate it to CMs and David so from there you should see consistency.
You keep making vague statements about this though and are not really providing examples....
It's rare I see any large scale internet forum have consistent moderation.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
I've seen plenty of other posts about vendor behavior where they were being total dicks, threatening the revenue stream, etc, but they don't get banned. Their system of moderation is way too uneven and dependent on the particular mod. No consistency whatsoever.
. The moderation team is mostly volunteers, who are from all over the world with different cultures etc, so interpretation of rules may vary slightly. Throw in the fact that some forums (Virtualization, Storage, Soapbox) have custom rules in the form of a sticky. You can escalate it to CMs and David so from there you should see consistency.
You keep making vague statements about this though and are not really providing examples....
I'm in "permanent moderation". If I were to try to post anything, it gets delayed and sent to mods for approval. And because of that, I've been a ghost around there. My give-a-shit about reading or posting anything on SW is long gone. Not sure what is vague about that.
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@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
I've seen plenty of other posts about vendor behavior where they were being total dicks, threatening the revenue stream, etc, but they don't get banned. Their system of moderation is way too uneven and dependent on the particular mod. No consistency whatsoever.
. The moderation team is mostly volunteers, who are from all over the world with different cultures etc, so interpretation of rules may vary slightly. Throw in the fact that some forums (Virtualization, Storage, Soapbox) have custom rules in the form of a sticky. You can escalate it to CMs and David so from there you should see consistency.
You keep making vague statements about this though and are not really providing examples....
I'm in "permanent moderation". If I were to try to post anything, it gets delayed and sent to mods for approval. And because of that, I've been a ghost around there. My give-a-shit about reading or posting anything on SW is long gone. Not sure what is vague about that.
My understanding is that queue is a bit like the Leaver/Rager queue in Dota2. You get thrown in it for bad behavior, and if you prove that most of your posts are good and it is a waste of time for the mods to approve things they let you out. Inversely if the alternative (letting you post freely) causes more work for the mods and CM's then I can see why leaving you in that would make sense (Mod Time and CM's are not a limitless free resource, and it's an IT community, not a babysitter service).
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@StorageNinja you can like them all you want, I'm over here in the "SW can suck all the dicks" camp. Your defense of the moderators will not sway that, nor will it change the inconsistent behavior they enjoy applying to a select few.
edit: your status as vendor (i.e. cash cow) makes them treat you far differently than the average community member. Don't forget that.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
I've seen plenty of other posts about vendor behavior where they were being total dicks, threatening the revenue stream, etc, but they don't get banned. Their system of moderation is way too uneven and dependent on the particular mod. No consistency whatsoever.
. The moderation team is mostly volunteers, who are from all over the world with different cultures etc, so interpretation of rules may vary slightly. Throw in the fact that some forums (Virtualization, Storage, Soapbox) have custom rules in the form of a sticky. You can escalate it to CMs and David so from there you should see consistency.
You keep making vague statements about this though and are not really providing examples....
It's rare I see any large scale internet forum have consistent moderation.
But it could be consistent, it's just not. The volunteers actually great more need for moderation than they fix, I think.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
This also has not worked outside of the Proxmox and some limited cases. I catch this from time to time and often really obvious sock puppets are allowed to stay.
Have you reported them to the group admins...
Report the main admins to the group admins?
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@rojoloco said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@StorageNinja you can like them all you want, I'm over here in the "SW can suck all the dicks" camp. Your defense of the moderators will not sway that, nor will it change the inconsistent behavior they enjoy applying to a select few.
I'm in the camp that I assume they (like all private businesses) want to make money. When someone costs them more, than the value they bring they would do what you said they did.
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@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
This also has not worked outside of the Proxmox and some limited cases. I catch this from time to time and often really obvious sock puppets are allowed to stay.
Have you reported them to the group admins...
Report the main admins to the group admins?
The Community admins are sock puppets on the storage forum? I haven't seen them ever post in that forum.
This gets back to an earlier point. As any community grows it's admins and rules will have to fracture. What's cool in the storage group isn't going to be cool in Newbies, or in the gong show that is the soapbox forum. Reddit survives because it decided that beyond some general community guidelines 100% consistent rules and moderation just wouldn't scale.
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@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
But it could be consistent, it's just not. The volunteers actually great more need for moderation than they fix, I think.
You think
The issue with moderation is without something that tracks what's deleted you can't actually know. 99% of what I deleted when I was involved heavily over there was...- Spam (And by Spam, I mostly mean like Escort services, crazy non-related stuff).
- Obvious sock puppets.
- Duplicate posts.
- Someone engaging in Ad Hominem attacks against someone other than me (I would just make fun of you, and call out your shitty rhetoric). You can attack idea's, you can't attack people.
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@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@scottalanmiller said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
@storageninja said in Websites like Mangolassi or Spiceworks:
- Behavior. If their first post is raving about a product They will at the least get a follow from admins/CM's even if they don't trip the others. If their only 3-4 posts are about Proxmox (even if spread across a year) they are going to get frozen until they talk to a CM.
This also has not worked outside of the Proxmox and some limited cases. I catch this from time to time and often really obvious sock puppets are allowed to stay.
Have you reported them to the group admins...
Report the main admins to the group admins?
The Community admins are sock puppets on the storage forum? I haven't seen them ever post in that forum.
This gets back to an earlier point. As any community grows it's admins and rules will have to fracture. What's cool in the storage group isn't going to be cool in Newbies, or in the gong show that is the soapbox forum. Reddit survives because it decided that beyond some general community guidelines 100% consistent rules and moderation just wouldn't scale.
You asked if I reported someone to the group admins. I've already reported teh sock puppets to the official admins.
