Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool
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@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Well what this thread tells me is that their is a nice opportunity for a software company to develop something with the 1-2 user base in mind.
Wave does that. At that size, what they do tends to work great. Xero does a great job there too, if you need the power. Microsoft had a good product here, but decided Excel was better and exited the space. They were quite a bit better than QB when they were around (it was called SBA.) There are lots of options in the one and two bookkeeper space.
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There is Oracle NetSuite, as well.
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Zoho, always a good choice for the SMB market, has their own package that I have not used but is probably quite good:
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Ok I see. I suppose the other people need to work on their marketing then. I want to look at Wave then they sound interesting.
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The only other key player we've not mentioned is FreshBooks.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@breffni-potter said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
A lot of accountants are on a referral scheme for QuickBooks/Sage/Xero and other tools, so recommendations are often skewed.
Yes, when people say that "their accountant recommended it", they forget that their accountants are sales people, not their advisors (in nearly all cases.) The accountants are literally paid to sell this stuff. So ended up with QB is often a direct violation of the most basic of IT best practices... getting advice from the sales person.
Xero does this. Should we rule them out?
https://www.xero.com/partner-programs/affiliates/ -
Having an affiliate program is not necessarily a bad thing. Its just suspect when people recommend products that don't fit a certain situation. Xero is a great product for most businesses whereas Quickbooks is not. So its a different situation in my opinion, something akin to apples and oranges you know.
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@breffni-potter said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
A lot of accountants are on a referral scheme for QuickBooks/Sage/Xero and other tools, so recommendations are often skewed.
Yes, when people say that "their accountant recommended it", they forget that their accountants are sales people, not their advisors (in nearly all cases.) The accountants are literally paid to sell this stuff. So ended up with QB is often a direct violation of the most basic of IT best practices... getting advice from the sales person.
Xero does this. Should we rule them out?
https://www.xero.com/partner-programs/affiliates/Xero is the seller's agent, they are suppose to do this. They are not YOUR agent.. that's the difference.
It's fine for the accountant to pimp QB or any product they like (of course, QB being such a bad product just shows that the accountant doesn't know what a good product is, and well, you should avoid them then) because they are a sales person when they are making a recommendation. The exception is when you hire someone (probably not an accountant) to help you pick an accounting package. In this case you are paying them for an opinion, and they are working for you, making the best business decision for you.
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@breffni-potter said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
A lot of accountants are on a referral scheme for QuickBooks/Sage/Xero and other tools, so recommendations are often skewed.
Yes, when people say that "their accountant recommended it", they forget that their accountants are sales people, not their advisors (in nearly all cases.) The accountants are literally paid to sell this stuff. So ended up with QB is often a direct violation of the most basic of IT best practices... getting advice from the sales person.
Xero does this. Should we rule them out?
https://www.xero.com/partner-programs/affiliates/That's the vendor. I think you totally are missing the concept of how this process works.
Who said rule out? That was not implied. No one suggested QB be ruled out because someone was paid to recommend them. But the number one most basic thing anyone does in IT OR in business is never get advice from the vendor or reseller. Nothing is more basic, and there is nothing we say more often. Nothing could be more obvious or important. But don't confuse "don't take advice from person X" with "don't buy product from vendor Y". You've made a leap of logic that has no connection. I can't figure out how you got from "your accountant is a sales person" to "avoid vendors that people try to sell." One does not connect to the other.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@breffni-potter said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
A lot of accountants are on a referral scheme for QuickBooks/Sage/Xero and other tools, so recommendations are often skewed.
Yes, when people say that "their accountant recommended it", they forget that their accountants are sales people, not their advisors (in nearly all cases.) The accountants are literally paid to sell this stuff. So ended up with QB is often a direct violation of the most basic of IT best practices... getting advice from the sales person.
Xero does this. Should we rule them out?
https://www.xero.com/partner-programs/affiliates/Xero is the seller's agent, they are suppose to do this. They are not YOUR agent.. that's the difference.
They are the seller themselves . The affiliation would be a seller's agent.
We the IT people are tasked with being the buyer's agents.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
It's fine for the accountant to pimp QB or any product they like (of course, QB being such a bad product just shows that the accountant doesn't know what a good product is, and well, you should avoid them then) because they are a sales person when they are making a recommendation. The exception is when you hire someone (probably not an accountant) to help you pick an accounting package. In this case you are paying them for an opinion, and they are working for you, making the best business decision for you.
Spot on. There is nothing wrong with your accountant being a sales person for QB. That's the social contract of sales. Since you don't pay your accountant to be a consultant to you, they have zero obligation (and no logical reason) to represent your interest. Any use of their advice would be obviously a violation of the duties of the buyer's agent to protect a business from predatory sales. But that can only be a fault on the buyer's end, not the seller's. It's a social contract that the account is there to sell you what is in their interest, not yours.
The person you would hire to select a software package would, of course, by your IT consultant. It's IT needs, not accounting needs, that primarily drive all IT purchases. You then select accountants that meet your business needs. You don't select your outsourced labor and then build your business to maximize your outsourcer's profits. You build your business to be a good business and select employees and outsourced staff that meet those needs. They work for you, not you for them.
So, in the case of IT in Auburn, Mike is the person that his customers should be turning to for accounting software advice as he's the local IT expert. His insight into why QB is dangerous and doesn't meet business or accounting needs well should be driving what is used in the market. No one should ever be asking an accountant about that at the best of times and certainly never when the accountant is a paid representative of a vendor.
That's literally the same as walking into the Ford dealer and asking what brand of car to buy. We all know that if you do that, you made the decision to buy Ford already. If you claimed it you had not and that you were trusting a consultant to pick the right car brand for you everyone would openly call out that lie. That it is a QB sales person instead of a Ford one doesn't change that. It's a one product sales person, in choosing that sales person, the choice of what to buy was already made.
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Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
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I had never seen this thread before, but since it jumped to the top of my unread I took a peak. The group I'm with currently has pretty close ties to one of the largest Practice Management Software developers in the country, and it's architecture is exactly the same. This is also why Ransomware is such an issue, considering everyone on the LAN normally has Read/Write access to the DB files. Terrible development is sadly far too common.
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@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
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@scottalanmiller You are correct about "finding" other accountants, however, it looks to be the cheaper or less experienced bookkeepers, only know one accounting package which happens to be QB. (Intuit targeted that market) Larger companies with larger hiring budgets will hire the accountant with more experience with ERP and other accounting packages. However, it would be totally unacceptable, and just bad business if a CPA working in public practice required all their client to use QuickBooks.
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@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller You are correct about "finding" other accountants, however, it looks to be the cheaper or less experienced bookkeepers, only know one accounting package which happens to be QB. (Intuit targeted that market) Larger companies with larger hiring budgets will hire the accountant with more experience with ERP and other accounting packages. However, it would be totally unacceptable, and just bad business if a CPA working in public practice required all their client to use QuickBooks.
Cheaper is a relative term, of course
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@scottalanmiller yes it is. clarification: $30-40 K salary in the Midwest.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@spiral said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Not sure how old this thread is, nonetheless, it was a good read. As a CPA myself, I deal with QB all the time, and agree with all its flaws, and yes, some are major flaws, as in the multi-user DBMS hack they implemented. I had to verify with Intuit, that users direct network access to the database file was an absolute requirement, because I did not want the fault, for requiring the QBW database file to be directly accessible and victim of a crytoware attack.
I make it my prerogative to become familiar with all accounting packages/tools my target business clients may use or benefit from. However, “for better or worse” the majority of the small business clients I see, are using QuickBooks.
I get the impression for the local small businesses, it is very difficult to find a decent experienced bookkeeper or accountant, for the right price, who knows anything, but QuickBooks. Granted, there are alternative options like "https://bench.co/", but those options only work for very small businesses, or when you do not need in-house accounting personnel onsite. (which could ask another question) Seems in small businesses at the 10-20 million gross revenue range, with staff budgeting constraints, and one or two full time in-house accountants, this continues to be a problem. This issue has gotten better over the past 10 years or so, as some younger bookkeeper/accountants are leaning more than one accounting platforms, but QuickBooks is still one of them.
As a CPA maybe you have more insight, but it seems pretty easy from where I am to just... find other accountants. That most are QB proficient is certainly what it seems to be. But finding good ones that can and will use other packages has always seemed very easy.
I wonder if it's more the SMB want a cheap package.. and QB is pretty cheap compared to many others... plus it has that Cisco effect - you see it while walking through airports, so it must be good.
QB isn't exactly cheap. What are you comparing against? Maybe it is cheaper than Xero, but requiring a server for more than one user is super expensive. And making you need Windows instead of Chromebooks, also super expensive. And compared to Wave Apps that is totally free, it's super expensive.
a server - ha.. you mean a share on Windows 10. You're already running on Windows so no extra cost there.
But the fact that you NEED windows, yeah that can make it more expensive.
