Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@EddieJennings said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
Whamo Namo
Today's server crash brought to you by Whamo. Makers of fine sledge hammers everywhere.
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@BBigford said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
I was just saying it would make sense to have a GUI install in that case.
The only reason you would ever install Windows Server on bare-metal instead of the free Hyper-V Server 2016, is if you need to use features or services on bare-metal that are not available or allowed on the free Hyper-V Server. For example, just because you CAN install something on Hyper-V Server, doesn't mean you technically are allowed to according to Microsoft's licensing.
For example, I have installed Windows Server 2016 Standard on a physical HOST because I needed to use deduplication on the host's physical storage. Deduplication is not available on Hyper-V Server 2016, so I was forced in to installing Windows. That's one scenario where you would not install Hyper-V Server.
But Scott is correct, you should otherwise ALWAYS install Hyper-V Server 2016 on bare-metal, regardless of licensing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@BBigford said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@BBigford said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
But, less than 13 Standard licenses and not growing (or installing more non-Windows servers as they grow), definitely stick with Core and license servers individually as needed.
Of course you already knew all of that, just thought it was worth mentioning here.
I don't understand how the VM licensing relates to Hyper-V.
Just using an example where someone might have more than 13 licenses of Windows Server on a host, using more than that would make sense to have a Datacenter license because the cost of DC would be less than the accumulative cost of Standard on each WS. Since a DC license can't be applied Hyper-V Server/free/non-licensed/Core/non-GUI.
I was just saying it would make sense to have a GUI install in that case.
DC isn't applied to Hyper-V at all. It's applied to Windows. There is no licensing for Hyper-V, so it's a different discussion. You are talking about the VMs, not the hypervisor.
I think what he might be getting at is automatic VM activation, which occurs if you have applied a Datacenter License key to Windows Server Datacenter running on the Host. But that's a moot reason to install full Windows on a Host when there are options to use a KMS or other license server.
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@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
For example, I have installed Windows Server 2016 Standard on a physical HOST because I needed to use deduplication on the host's physical storage. Deduplication is not available on Hyper-V Server 2016, so I was forced in to installing Windows. That's one scenario where you would not install Hyper-V Server.
Why would you need/want dedup at the hypervisor level? Are you implying that MS's dedup is not allowed to be used inside a VM? If so, do you have a link?
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@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@BBigford said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
I was just saying it would make sense to have a GUI install in that case.
The only reason you would ever install Windows Server on bare-metal instead of the free Hyper-V Server 2016, is if you need to use features or services on bare-metal that are not available or allowed on the free Hyper-V Server. For example, just because you CAN install something on Hyper-V Server, doesn't mean you technically are allowed to according to Microsoft's licensing.
It's important to note though that you are allowed to install anything there as long as licensing for the feature is acquired. Example might be having Datacenter licensing for the hardware - you can then put any function or feature that you want in the Dom0 VM because you paid for it. It's still lean so many things won't exist or work. But you always have the option of paying for the Dom0 to be allowed to do additional things from Windows either by consuming one VM OSE from a standard license or by having a D.C. License.
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@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
I think what he might be getting at is automatic VM activation, which occurs if you have applied a Datacenter License key to Windows Server Datacenter running on the Host. But that's a moot reason to install full Windows on a Host when there are options to use a KMS or other license server.
I wonder if MS updated Hyper-V Server 2016 to allow you to add a DC key just for this reason?
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@BBigford said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
I was just saying it would make sense to have a GUI install in that case.
The only reason you would ever install Windows Server on bare-metal instead of the free Hyper-V Server 2016, is if you need to use features or services on bare-metal that are not available or allowed on the free Hyper-V Server. For example, just because you CAN install something on Hyper-V Server, doesn't mean you technically are allowed to according to Microsoft's licensing.
It's important to note though that you are allowed to install anything there as long as licensing for the feature is acquired. Example might be having Datacenter licensing for the hardware - you can then put any function or feature that you want in the Dom0 VM because you paid for it. It's still lean so many things won't exist or work. But you always have the option of paying for the Dom0 to be allowed to do additional things from Windows either by consuming one VM OSE from a standard license or by having a D.C. License.
Yes that's a good point.
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@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
Why would you need/want dedup at the hypervisor level?
SCDPM MBS, one example I'm actually doing.
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@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
Are you implying that MS's dedup is now allowed to be used inside a VM? If so, do you have a link?
Maybe I don't understand this question... but I'm running dedupe inside of a few different file server VMs just fine.
FileServer VM using a 5TB .vhdx for one of it's drives. And that is being deduped inside the VM.
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@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
For example, I have installed Windows Server 2016 Standard on a physical HOST because I needed to use deduplication on the host's physical storage. Deduplication is not available on Hyper-V Server 2016, so I was forced in to installing Windows. That's one scenario where you would not install Hyper-V Server.
Why would you need/want dedup at the hypervisor level? Are you implying that MS's dedup is now allowed to be used inside a VM? If so, do you have a link?
Dedupe at the hypervisor level is important because of things like the OS. So there are exceptions, obviously. But let's say you have 100 VMs of CentOS 7 and 150 VMs of Windows 2016 and you keep them patched the same and have the same install images and setup... a good dedupe could in theory reduce 250 VMs OS portions down to just 10GB or so. That's an extreme example and nothing is that efficient, but you see how it could be effective in a way that "inside the VM" would not?
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
For example, I have installed Windows Server 2016 Standard on a physical HOST because I needed to use deduplication on the host's physical storage. Deduplication is not available on Hyper-V Server 2016, so I was forced in to installing Windows. That's one scenario where you would not install Hyper-V Server.
Why would you need/want dedup at the hypervisor level? Are you implying that MS's dedup is now allowed to be used inside a VM? If so, do you have a link?
Dedupe at the hypervisor level is important because of things like the OS. So there are exceptions, obviously. But let's say you have 100 VMs of CentOS 7 and 150 VMs of Windows 2016 and you keep them patched the same and have the same install images and setup... a good dedupe could in theory reduce 250 VMs OS portions down to just 10GB or so. That's an extreme example and nothing is that efficient, but you see how it could be effective in a way that "inside the VM" would not?
Yeah - I knew this answer as soon as I posted that. I guess MS is just limiting where that tech is available - i.e. licensed option.
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@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Dashrender said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
@Tim_G said in Hyper-V Architecture 2016 and How To Install:
For example, I have installed Windows Server 2016 Standard on a physical HOST because I needed to use deduplication on the host's physical storage. Deduplication is not available on Hyper-V Server 2016, so I was forced in to installing Windows. That's one scenario where you would not install Hyper-V Server.
Why would you need/want dedup at the hypervisor level? Are you implying that MS's dedup is now allowed to be used inside a VM? If so, do you have a link?
Dedupe at the hypervisor level is important because of things like the OS. So there are exceptions, obviously. But let's say you have 100 VMs of CentOS 7 and 150 VMs of Windows 2016 and you keep them patched the same and have the same install images and setup... a good dedupe could in theory reduce 250 VMs OS portions down to just 10GB or so. That's an extreme example and nothing is that efficient, but you see how it could be effective in a way that "inside the VM" would not?
Yeah - I knew this answer as soon as I posted that. I guess MS is just limiting where that tech is available - i.e. licensed option.
Yes. You can still get dedupe in other ways, like by adding Starwind there or other storage technology. It's just that dedupe is not part of Hyper-V.
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I should add that this is not exactly true. "Windows Dedupe" is not available in Hyper-V, which might sound obvious, as it is a Windows feature. But Hyper-V does have ReFS which has a new feature in 2016 that is not called dedupe but acts like a really light dedupe option. So while "Windows Dedupe" is not available, there is a dedupe technology available to use. But it's not a great one, it's super basic. But it also has like zero overhead, so can be pretty nice to use even if it doesn't do a lot.
