Sunk Cost Fallacy?

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

This in the end is a business decision, if they don't want to use the right tools for the job that's on them and not you. Present them the numbers and the functionality and let them pick. Implement and support whatever they choose.

So what tool would you prefer? that you have to scroll through a list every time you want to do something on the phone? instead of having a dedicated button to the task?

Well.... to do what? What task do doctors perform that requires lots of phone buttons? Having a few to quickly reach certain people can make sense, but how many? How much "calling from public spaces" do doctors do? And what makes you need to scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix as I'm not sure what is broken. A secretary needing lightning fast access to every extension is assumed, but the doctor would normally be expected to pass phone management to the secretary.

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Yeah, that's still a bit sadly.

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

This in the end is a business decision, if they don't want to use the right tools for the job that's on them and not you. Present them the numbers and the functionality and let them pick. Implement and support whatever they choose.

So what tool would you prefer? that you have to scroll through a list every time you want to do something on the phone? instead of having a dedicated button to the task?

I prefer to scroll, because it's something I do once or twice a year, why waste the money on the fringe 1-2% of activities I'm using the phone for. I doubt I would save any more time using a button over a menu system.

I'm going to go back to my other question. Where are these phones located? Are these in patient rooms or in doctor's offices?

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Still quite a bit more. May want to get a firm grasp on long term support costs, but you wouldn't pay for the change over in a 5 year window that's for sure.

Out of curiosity why wouldn't the infrastructure upgrades be included with the other options? Seems like any new phone will require CAT5 or better wiring.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Yeah, that's still a bit sadly.

Assuming $1000/yr for software updates and support to install them, that $5K is the operating cash for the next 5 years.

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

That's nine things. The most basic phone I looked at has 10. Are all programmable? No, so it might not quite meet your desires here. But close. You certainly don't need much for that, maybe one step up would do it.

[Dashrender]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Still quite a bit more. May want to get a firm grasp on long term support costs, but you wouldn't pay for the change over in a 5 year window that's for sure.

Out of curiosity why wouldn't the infrastructure upgrades be included with the other options? Seems like any new phone will require CAT5 or better wiring.

No, the phones will stay digital, don't need CAT 5 for digital phones. So no switch port upgrades/no new cabling, instant $2500 savings.

[coliver]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Sadly the Cisco phone I'm looking at right now, several times the cost of the Yealink, doesn't even meet these requirements.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Sadly the Cisco phone I'm looking at right now, several times the cost of the Yealink, doesn't even meet these requirements.

It might cost more, but it's a cheaper phone

[coliver]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)

*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)

*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.

Oh okay, that's a PBX feature and can easily handle that stuff for a number of the features. If a quick code is good enough, the $75 phones are back in play. Not saying that they are right, just that they are affordable and my dad uses it

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

What do you mean? It would be placed on hold as one of the "lines".

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

Hold is normally a hard button, though. It's intercom that is rare.