old MSP wants to know what they did wrong
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
The standard misuse is the same standard misuse of blade - 1u rackmounts. Because they are common and people assume that there must be nicknames for them so they assume anything that they hear refers to that. Your example from your datacenter is exactly the case I have talked about for years and years. It's not a "general misuse", it's this specific case of calling 1U servers terms reserved for other machines.
Or my reference to x86 on ARM, it's clearly wrong, but those who don't know this would just continue to spread misinformation.
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@travisdh1 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
The standard misuse is the same standard misuse of blade - 1u rackmounts. Because they are common and people assume that there must be nicknames for them so they assume anything that they hear refers to that. Your example from your datacenter is exactly the case I have talked about for years and years. It's not a "general misuse", it's this specific case of calling 1U servers terms reserved for other machines.
Or my reference to x86 on ARM, it's clearly wrong, but those who don't know this would just continue to spread misinformation.
I almost mentioned that
Or the common one, of referring to AMD64 as IA64 even though both are competing technologies, rather than two of the same one.
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People use incorrect terms in almost every aspect of IT all the time, either due to ignorance or whatever. You will have that.
But in my opinion, calling a 1u server a pizza box, now that the original meaning is no longer relevant today, and still makes sense because its so similar, is fine. Most people use it correctly in that aspect, but you will always have people who just straight up call something completely incorrect.
Just like how everyone calls a cable internet box a "modem", even though it isn't... Who cares, we all know what they mean. If someone calls their food processor a modem, im not going to protest that we should no longer call cable boxes a cable modem.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
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@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.
I was thinking exactly this. While Scott claims that it's still current, the use of 25 year old computers is definitely not what I would call current (this assumes they are using a 25 year old computer and that Sparc hasn't updated them with current stuff). I know people who are still programming and managing IBM mainframes apps that are 20+ years old on emulators that are 10+, I certainly wouldn't call them current.
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
Same 25+ old machine.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
I would think so. In my case, it was (is) a drill press.
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.
2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.
2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.
Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.
2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.
Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.
You are missing the issue. The issue is that the source of the new nickname is a misuse of the old one, not an introduction of a new one. That's specifically the problem. If the 1U server had been intentionally nicknames a pizzabox, instead of being mistaken for a Sparcserver, then that would apply.
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For example, we all know that the Volkswagon Beetle is known as the "bug". If someone saw another car thinking it was the Beetle and called it a bug, they are not nicknaming that new car a bug as well, they are misidentifying it as a Beetle. That is the source of the issue here, we are talking about a mistake, not a new nickname. That the mistake is repeated a lot in SMB / SW circles is expected as tons of mistakes like mistaking what a Type 2 hypervisor is, or what product runs on bare metal, or what cloud is are all also similar mistakes that we correct. We dont just take someone misunderstanding something and call it a "new nickname."
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.
2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.
Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.
You are missing the issue. The issue is that the source of the new nickname is a misuse of the old one, not an introduction of a new one. That's specifically the problem. If the 1U server had been intentionally nicknames a pizzabox, instead of being mistaken for a Sparcserver, then that would apply.
You are missing the issue: it doesn't matter. It's a nickname and can apply to whatever you want to call by that name. If I feel like calling a spoon a dinglehopper, even though Ariel already taught us that a fork is a dinglehopper, I'm not wrong. Neither of them is actually a dinglehopper. It's a nickname and has nothing to due with anything that actually means something. If I'm in an interview and you ask me a question as vague as that, you deserve whatever response you get. How many things are referred to as a "toaster"? But, there was this thing that was called a toaster years ago and if you don't know that then you're not as smart as me because I know what a "real" toaster is, even though none of them are actually toasters. I do know what a real toaster is, and they are not related, outside a mild resemblance of size and overall shape.
