Simplivity - anyone use them?
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@JaredBusch Understood. When you compare to just the Hosts or servers, the TCO would be poor, however the cost of servers, storage, backup software, backup target, are usually higher as a whole. Throw in DR if its considered necessary, and the cost is usually 200% the cost of Simplivity.
We can replace all of that, and typically we reduce the sockets in the environment. In fact we support essentials plus for a 2+1 meaning 2 in an HA pair at prod and a single node at DR.
My partner and I have had some disscussions around the thread, and we are going to try to config an SMB bundle with a real street cost, it will be heavily discounted (like enterprises get) without the haggle.
If it meets the price point then great. If not then perhaps we aren't a good fit today.
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Dear everyone in this thread:
SimpliVity are amazing, and I will punch anyone who disagrees in a sensitive body part.
Listen to me: you all know me. You know that I am both a very loud customer advocate and one of the loudest, most irritating voices for dropping prices. I need to say this very loudly and very clearly: SimpliVity are a fantastic company, with top notch service and a damned-near-impossible to beat product.
Like any company, they aren't going to meet every single niche need. They certainly aren't the cheapest on the market. They aren't trying to be all things to all people and they aren't trying to be the low cost supplier, so it's not shocking that they are neither.
What they are is the absolute best, full stop, at data efficiency. Nobody manages to do data efficiency as thoroughly as they do, at the speeds they do and with the WAN efficiency that they do. This is SimpliVity's schitck, and it has real world implications.
The first is the aforementioned WAN efficiency. The second is that highly similar workloads (such as VDI) absolutely scream on SimpliVity. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Does this make SimpliVity something of a "luxury car" for hyperconvergence? Absolutely. But it's not "a Lamborghini", it's more of a "Tesla Roadster". The price isn't about pointless flash; you get something different for your money, and different enough that it becomes addictive to those who can afford to use it. The money isn't spend on flash or brand name; they deliver actual value for it.
Now, I'd be the first to piss on them for overcharging or otherwise not living up to their promise. Everyone here should know that about me by now. I have, in fact, been in multiple meetings with their top brass where I am the loudest customer advocacy voice in the room, demanding they meet this need, or that requirement, and lower the price.
Despite that, they don't deserve to be pooped on. They aren't all things to all people, but they are absolutely untouchable at what they do.
Cheers.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
My partner and I have had some disscussions around the thread, and we are going to try to config an SMB bundle with a real street cost, it will be heavily discounted (like enterprises get) without the haggle.
Now that's the kind of thing that we need. Great to see this thread making for a productive result and deliverable. Good job to everyone, I think.
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@cakeis_not_alie Thank you for the support! As I mentioned several of our customers and employees are Very passionate about our tech.
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@virtualrick I'm neither a customer, nor an employee!
SimpliVity had paid me for some work, but not in the past 6 months, as marketing money has been redirected towards engineering, and mine was the first contract on the chopping block.
I'm too poor to be a customer, however, SimpliVity did help me out once by loaning me two nodes and allowing me to review them in production as I saved a customer from dying servers in a really odd situation where the servers went just months before the location was to be shut down.
Mostly, I know about SimpliVity because I am a tech journalist who writes about hyperconvergence, so they keep me up to date on changes. I have a few friends inside and this has meant that I get to be part of the NDA briefings, and go to SimpliVity conferences. This lets me meet many happy customers.
I have also met customers with problems. And I have served as their advocate to those higher up in SimpliVity. That customer advocacy role doesn't make me many friends, and I think it's safe to say a lot more people inside SimpliVity dislike me than like me.
That said...I have had the chance to really get to know the company, it's tech, it's customers...the whole thing. I'm the first person to poop all over companies that deserve it. And there are things I would - and do - poop on SimpliVity for.
...but the stuff in this thread just isn't what SimpliVity should be yelled at for. Some times I'm on the side of the mob, raising a pitchfork and demanding vendors stop being dumbasses. This time, I find myself having to side with a vendor and saying "guys...you're off the mark".
It's rare to find good vendors. SimpliVity does a thing (data efficiency) better than anyone else. They also have committed to customer support that goes above and beyond. Both are things that they should be applauded for, and which absolutely earn them a position at the top of the hyperconvergence pile, and which should earn them a seat at the negotiating table for anyone serious about buying hyperconvergence in the 4 node+ range.
So yeah, I'll stick my neck out for SimpliVity. Because, for all their quirks and faults...they've earned that from me. There aren't a whole lot of vendors who have.
Especially not vendors that I, personally, nor my clients, can afford.
Cheers.
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@cakeis_not_alie Didn't know who you were
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
Dear everyone in this thread:
SimpliVity are amazing, and I will punch anyone who disagrees in a sensitive body part.
Listen to me: you all know me. You know that I am both a very loud customer advocate and one of the loudest, most irritating voices for dropping prices. I need to say this very loudly and very clearly: SimpliVity are a fantastic company, with top notch service and a damned-near-impossible to beat product.
Like any company, they aren't going to meet every single niche need. They certainly aren't the cheapest on the market. They aren't trying to be all things to all people and they aren't trying to be the low cost supplier, so it's not shocking that they are neither.
What they are is the absolute best, full stop, at data efficiency. Nobody manages to do data efficiency as thoroughly as they do, at the speeds they do and with the WAN efficiency that they do. This is SimpliVity's schitck, and it has real world implications.
The first is the aforementioned WAN efficiency. The second is that highly similar workloads (such as VDI) absolutely scream on SimpliVity. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Does this make SimpliVity something of a "luxury car" for hyperconvergence? Absolutely. But it's not "a Lamborghini", it's more of a "Tesla Roadster". The price isn't about pointless flash; you get something different for your money, and different enough that it becomes addictive to those who can afford to use it. The money isn't spend on flash or brand name; they deliver actual value for it.
Now, I'd be the first to piss on them for overcharging or otherwise not living up to their promise. Everyone here should know that about me by now. I have, in fact, been in multiple meetings with their top brass where I am the loudest customer advocacy voice in the room, demanding they meet this need, or that requirement, and lower the price.
Despite that, they don't deserve to be pooped on. They aren't all things to all people, but they are absolutely untouchable at what they do.
Cheers.
Thanks Trevor, that was the sort of info I was hoping for, from someone who'd had occasion to work with them and their tech. Sounds like in practice they are as awesome as the demo shows. The whole pricing side discussion has been a bit of a diversion from that, and I'm sure that there's a lot of pent up hostility from other vendor past pricing experiences that they happen to be the one to get dumped on. Thanks for chiming in, as always!
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@Nic To find out the how behind how SimpliVity does what they do, read this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/23/simplivity_storage_startups_new_tech_unique/
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Well, this thread blew up with activity pretty quickly.
@virtualrick - Firstly thanks for listening, then responding and not running away. When dealing with @scottalanmiller remember on his own profile his motto is: ""If it can be said in 100 words, I can say it in 1,000."" So it's a bit bombastic at times when you are not used to his pace. (how does he write so much, so quickly...)
So thank you for sticking around and listening, I doubt you guys have a presence in the UK so I don't think we'll cross over but I wish the best of luck with getting into the SMB space in the US.
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@cakeis_not_alie said
...but the stuff in this thread just isn't what SimpliVity should be yelled at for. Some times I'm on the side of the mob, raising a pitchfork and demanding vendors stop being dumbasses. This time, I find myself having to side with a vendor and saying "guys...you're off the mark".
I'm not convinced personally.
Any business wanting to enter the SMB space, who wants to generate profit and take it seriously, needs to research their market and the concept of hidden pricing/deal negotiations does not exist in the SMB world so it is a justifiable flaw they were called out on.
I'm of the opinion that if a vendor wants me to take their product into my inner sanctum of clients, Yes I'm going to challenge and question what you do and how you do it, if the fit is not good then we move onto somebody else but there are quite a few vendors who I am happy with.
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@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
SimpliVity are a midmarket and enterprise supplier. They don't have an SMB play worth mentioning. They aren't here to cater to the nickle-and-dime customers who cost more in support than the margins you'll make off them. They are making more than enough money playing the midmarket and higher spaces that they can - and from a purely business standpoint should - stay there for quite some time.
SimpliVity doesn't need to pander to the SMB market until the midmarket is so saturated that they need to go make a volume play. When they're ready to do that in earnest a lot of things will change in SimpliVity's approach.
Right now, SimpliVity makes their wins off of companies that have muchos big time branch offices and need a solution that lowers costs when compared to having to run basically a rack's worth of stuff at each branch location in order to squeeze the data through the tubes every night. They make money here and they're very, very good at squaring this circle.
For the poverty-tier folks - myself included - there are lots of other vendors. The really ghetto types can choose Starwind and <censored for legal reasons>. Or they can go use Nodeweaver from Cloudweavers if they want proper HCI that actually works, for as low as humanly possible.
A step up from that into a more expensive world is Scale Computing, and they're excellent, VMware's VSAN comes in around the same price for a different, but equal featureset.
You could go Nutanix, but their performance is made out of buttinase unless you devote WAY too much RAM to their VSA, and then you don't have room for workloads. Their SMB play is mostly brochureware.
Stepping up from the barest of bare bones and into the realm of the midmarket you start to see actual competition. Scale plays here. SimpliVity, Nutanix, Pivot3, many, many others...and they all have deltas between list and street that are significant.
Here, picking the right HCI vendor is about needs and featureset. And the purchasing cycle is usually months long and involves a POC. (Or ten.)
But if you are poverty tier like me, let me be perfectly, 100%, crystal clear: SimpliVity, and 99.999999999999999975% of vendors simply don't want to deal with you, because you cost more to acquire and support than you are worth.
In the realm of "caters to poverty tier clients" basically the only solution that anyone should trust is Nodeweaver, and I still don't understand why they're so damned cheap. Their stuff works, and they should be charging 2x-3x what they do for it. Eventually, I'm sure they will.
Everyone else who plays down at our level...well...Groucho Marx said it best:
I wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.
If your whole beef with SimpliVity is that they aren't going to suck you a rapture for a bent copper, I'm sorry to say, but they - rightly - don't, won't and shouldn't care. Not for another 10 years or so, anyways.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a datacenter full of cobbled together whitebox servers and sadness that needs my tender care and attention...
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@Breffni-Potter Actually we have a large presence in UK, in fact we have our HQ for Support for the EMEA region in Cork, Ireland. We do around 47% of our rev outside the us. I'm sure there is local staff for you.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
Simplivity said it.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Actually we have a large presence in UK, in fact we have our HQ for Support for the EMEA region in Cork, Ireland. We do around 47% of our rev outside the us. I'm sure there is local staff for you.
How is the EU presence? I realize Cork is in the EU.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@Breffni-Potter Who says SimpliVity wants to enter the SMB space? Anyone telling you that is nuts.
Notice that last line. This was Simplivity's first post here. So we were basing the SMB focus on that statement.
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@scottalanmiller In our patch in IL/WI we will be happy to work with anyone. We have enterprise customers as well as smaller 2 node only shops and I feel they are both worthwhile. If my leadership says someone isn't big enough to deal with, I would listen, but I ran these in production for 2+ years as an end user (yes enterprise) and had them in branch offices (similar to a SMB IMHO) and they performed very well. Cost less than traditional for me.
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@cakeis_not_alie said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
In the realm of "caters to poverty tier clients" basically the only solution that anyone should trust is Nodeweaver, and I still don't understand why they're so damned cheap.
@stefuk had me look at them and the price wasn't that cheap. It was cheap, yeah, but like 90% of bigger players. Not like 30-50%.
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@virtualrick said in Simplivity - anyone use them?:
@scottalanmiller In our patch in IL/WI we will be happy to work with anyone. We have enterprise customers as well as smaller 2 node only shops and I feel they are both worthwhile. If my leadership says someone isn't big enough to deal with, I would listen, but I ran these in production for 2+ years as an end user (yes enterprise) and had them in branch offices (similar to a SMB IMHO) and they performed very well. Cost less than traditional for me.
I've done enterprise branch office, it's very different than an SMB, in most cases. ROBO and SMB have a lot of overlap, but a lot of differences, too.
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For example, and this is probably the most extreme that I can think of, a top ROBO solution is the Dell VRTX. But the VRTX is considered totally worthless in the SMB market. Totally different needs.
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@scottalanmiller Then SimpliVity needs to be kicked for it. Twenty lashes with a wet noodle and no internet for a week!
SME? Yes. SMB? No. SimpliVity doesn't play down at my level, except for my very largest clients.
Let me be perfectly clear: SimpliVity started with a MIDMARKET focus and moved up channel.
Now, we could have debates about what is SMB, what is Midmarket and what is Enterprise, but I have actual definitions to use for this: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/061.nsf/eng/02804.html
The midmarket is defined by the Canadian government as 100+ employees. And that's about right for where SimpliVity starts to be a real consideration. I'm going to say whomever believes that is "SMB" is out of touch with the real mass market and what SMB means, especially outside the USA.
And maybe that's the kicker. US definitions and "pretty much the rest of the world" differ a lot here. Important to consider.
