How Do You Teach Everything in IT?
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@dafyre and @scottalanmiller I agree with your statements regarding the fundamentals. The number of IT pros that I have encountered who do not understand subnetting is disappointing. That being said, I think that the problems start when you leave the basics. Using your example in the OP @scottalanmiller, you had never heard of a given tool that a customer considered normative. I'm running in to this on a nearly daily basis as I transition from Windows Admin to Linux Admin. I have no idea what is normative (other than what is mentioned here and elsewhere), and that is a moving target at best.
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To give a concrete example.... I've done a lot of talking about RAID, mostly not here. What I think people miss is that the ideas I espouse are mostly just repeating really good information from Microsoft, Oracle and ZDNet (Robin Harris) who have done a lot of research in this area. I just talk about how their information applies to the modern landscape. I've done a lot of research on my own, of course, but nothing I have said ever disagrees with those three or, really, any RAID research I have ever seen.
But things that I say, like that RAID 5's place on Winchester drives is long gone given the factors affecting modern Winchester drives is often distilled to something quite different like RAID 10 is the only viable RAID level. That's very different. It's also often assumed that somehow that means that RAID 5 never made sense, which of course is nonsense. That would be like saying that gasoline was a dumb idea now that electric cars are available - how silly we were to buy gas cars all these years (but ignoring the fact that electric cars didn't exist yet.)
So there has become two cultures that I see - one that thinks I'm promoting RAID 10 as the one and only answer and repeats that rather strongly (I agree it is the most common answer, but just barely) and another that wants to spite me and basically says that all attempts to research RAID or business factors is dumb and you should always run RAID 5 and not consider cost or risk or performance just because "screw SAM" for caring.
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@Kelly said:
I'm running in to this on a nearly daily basis as I transition from Windows Admin to Linux Admin. I have no idea what is normative (other than what is mentioned here and elsewhere), and that is a moving target at best.
That will always be a moving target, I think -- especially as new tools come and go, and you get experience with different OSes (Windows vs various Linux Distros / *BSD, etc). Customer A might use Robocopy... Customer B might use Free File Sync, and Customer C might use some variation of rsync on Windows. All 3 can accomplish the same task... but various customer mentalities will almost always challenge the perception of "normal".
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@Kelly said:
I have no idea what is normative (other than what is mentioned here and elsewhere), and that is a moving target at best.
I'll agree with that as a problem. I'm less concerned with figuring out how to teach what is normative in a specific area of specialization, however, as in doing so for the generalist as a base of shared knowledge. Specializations are much more of a moving target and once to that level, people have more responsibility to be more critical in their assessments of things, I think.
If you are a well educated, properly thinking generalist with a broad set of knowledge I think that your ability to avoid bad trends in specialist areas is much easier.
Sure you might miss big things and always use RPM manually and not realize that everyone uses YUM to make things easy, but that is easy to correct later on.
I had a long history of UNIX administration before I was introduced to automounting. Doesn't mean I was a crazy UNIX person before that, it was just one more skill I had to add on later on.
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@dafyre said:
@Kelly said:
I'm running in to this on a nearly daily basis as I transition from Windows Admin to Linux Admin. I have no idea what is normative (other than what is mentioned here and elsewhere), and that is a moving target at best.
That will always be a moving target, I think -- especially as new tools come and go, and you get experience with different OSes (Windows vs various Linux Distros / *BSD, etc). Customer A might use Robocopy... Customer B might use Free File Sync, and Customer C might use some variation of rsync on Windows. All 3 can accomplish the same task... but various customer mentalities will almost always challenge the perception of "normal".
This is sadly super true. Although I think that it highlights an importance to producing a base for specializations as well... the ability to show potential employers more or less definitively that what they expect an outsider to be familiar with is common or niche.
Most of us have probably had interviews for a position that we felt that we were far too senior for and yet they felt we were unqualified idiots because their view of that job was totally different from ours. Sometimes with things that are completely unrelated. Like randomly assuming that all Windows Admins know Exchange. I was an MCSE+I, had used Windows in the enterprise for years and often was not even in an environment that used Exchange let alone was the admin for it. Only a small subset of Windows Admins will ever see Exchange, yet some shops just assume that they are one and the same.
And then people might randomly assume that you manage everything through VBScript, but you only know PowerShell or JScript. Randomly people might assume you can program or that you will never, ever use a command line.
I actually find the Red Hat certs hard because they assume lots of skills only entry level desktop admins would ever use or see and anyone at even an entry level server level would be unlikely to even know exists (GUIs for printers, for example.)
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If someone could give me pointers to reinforce critical thinking skills with green IT Staff, I would be eternally grateful. Experience plays a large part in knowing which questions to ask during that process, but other parts are just "common sense" to some people while completely foreign to others. From reading error messages to services breaking, IT people need to dig deep sometimes to resolve an issue. When training staff, I usually ask them the same questions that I ask myself internally. Ex - "What is related to this process that could affect this failure" (Scope & Environment), "What does that error message mean? Break it apart and take it one part at a time"
I have a saying/theory/whatever: There is always a point where you look at technology and consider it a "magic black box". This is where your understanding ends and it "just works". IT people need to be many, many layers deeper than the average user.
The concern is how to prep IT People to push deeper when they hit the "magic black box" so that A ) They dont stop or get frustrated before they fix the problem & B ) Their understanding and knowledge improve which helps reduce the "magic black box" issues
Also I always stress consistent testing environments for new staff. Your hour of testing means little if important factors are not tracked that could influence this issue.
Feel free to improve my saying (or completely refute it if you disagree). Im always open to improving my management and training skills.
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@Kelly said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
I have no idea what is normative (other than what is mentioned here and elsewhere), and that is a moving target at best.
You've nicely summarized why I'm taking an old MacBookPro home tonight as well as fighting with linux to make it do my bidding in any of several flavors. My days of being a windoze only admin are drawing to a close.
Tangentially related: I need a better paying job really badly. I'm open to offers / ideas, please msg me or whatever.
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@ryanblahnik said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
Sorry I don't have much help to offer after the mention though, Matt, and good luck with your hunt :mountain_bicyclist_tone4:
Cheers mate, you too
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@Brains said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
I have a saying/theory/whatever: There is always a point where you look at technology and consider it a "magic black box". This is where your understanding ends and it "just works". IT people need to be many, many layers deeper than the average user.
That's a great perspective, I like that. At some level, everything because a magic black box to everyone; it's just different levels.
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@scottalanmiller said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
That's a great perspective, I like that. At some level, everything because a magic black box to everyone; it's just different levels.
That's a great perspective, I like that. At some level, everything becomes a magic black box to everyone; it's just different levels. - ftfy
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@Brains said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
I have a saying/theory/whatever: There is always a point where you look at technology and consider it a "magic black box". This is where your understanding ends and it "just works". IT people need to be many, many layers deeper than the average user.
I really like this.
The question is how do I erase the magic box in an efficient way? I think forums where fact/opinion are both listed really halts the learning process. I say that as a person who has unknowingly been wrong myself.
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@wirestyle22 said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@Brains said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
I have a saying/theory/whatever: There is always a point where you look at technology and consider it a "magic black box". This is where your understanding ends and it "just works". IT people need to be many, many layers deeper than the average user.
I really like this.
The question is how do I erase the magic box in an efficient way? I think forums where fact/opinion are both listed really halts the learning process. I say that as a person who has unknowingly been wrong myself.
In some ways it certainly does. But in other ways it exposes misconceptions. Look at people who learn elsewhere then post things on forums and get their ideas vetted by live logic and examination. I think that forums expose a lot that are missed otherwise.
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@scottalanmiller said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@wirestyle22 said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@Brains said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
I have a saying/theory/whatever: There is always a point where you look at technology and consider it a "magic black box". This is where your understanding ends and it "just works". IT people need to be many, many layers deeper than the average user.
I really like this.
The question is how do I erase the magic box in an efficient way? I think forums where fact/opinion are both listed really halts the learning process. I say that as a person who has unknowingly been wrong myself.
In some ways it certainly does. But in other ways it exposes misconceptions. Look at people who learn elsewhere then post things on forums and get their ideas vetted by live logic and examination. I think that forums expose a lot that are missed otherwise.
That is a very good point.
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That's how RAID 5 spread... but then kept spreading after it didn't make sense anymore... until people started questioning it on forums and people had to reevaluate and update their knowledge.
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@scottalanmiller Yeah. I still see posts about it on Spiceworks every now and then. You and I were having a conversation about the merits of Raid 10 (specifically to the solution I was discussing) which is what brought me here. /memories
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@wirestyle22 said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@scottalanmiller Yeah. I still see posts about it on Spiceworks every now and then. You and I were having a conversation about the merits of Raid 10 (specifically to the solution I was discussing) which is what brought me here. /memories
Someone promoted RAID 5 within the last hour, for an 84TB array believe it or not!
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@scottalanmiller said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@wirestyle22 said in How Do You Teach Everything in IT?:
@scottalanmiller Yeah. I still see posts about it on Spiceworks every now and then. You and I were having a conversation about the merits of Raid 10 (specifically to the solution I was discussing) which is what brought me here. /memories
Someone promoted RAID 5 within the last hour, for an 84TB array believe it or not!
Have the link? This I HAVE to watch
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I'll look for it. I've lost it already. Was just one guy promoting it mid-thread. Nothing too serious. But he really got into why he liked it.
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The best part was he felt that "if you manage it well, RAID 5 is safe." Um... how do you "manage RAID 5 well?"
