WDS vs. MDT vs. WAIK
-
So I know SCCM has everything rolled in, but that's way more work than our smaller environment can justify. We already have SCCM stood up, but there's just so much extra work that goes into it. WDS performs well, but not being able to mess with tasks and specific drivers being applied to packages is a problem for us. I basically need WDS with that kind of control.
I don't fully understand the differences between WDS and MDT. I've found that WAIK is for building unattended files, and is needed in MDT. An article said you use WDS for PXE boot, and build images in MDT. That doesn't make any sense because I'm building images in WDS (capture/boot images/install images/driver repositories/etc). Why would I use MDT/WAIK over WDS? Why do both exist?
If you're wondering why WDS doesn't work for us, I can't explicitly define a driver repository to a certain model. I enter the System Model into the filter, but it doesn't work. I even look up the model in msinfo32 and enter it exactly, still doesn't work. I've tried the option to apply all drivers, and apply only applicable to the hardware. Still seeing certain drivers not installing, or no drivers installed. If I disable all other driver packages except the one the model needs, and don't filter, it works great.
I have the install media built from a VM so as to be very generic, I capture it to WDS, and break out driver packs based on machine models. So I'm not building all different kinds of images. But all images work, if I disable the other driver packages that aren't compatible with that machine currently being imaged.
-
@BBigford said:
I don't fully understand the differences between WDS and MDT. I've found that WAIK is for building unattended files, and is needed in MDT. An article said you use WDS for PXE boot, and build images in MDT. That doesn't make any sense because I'm building images in WDS (capture/boot images/install images/driver repositories/etc). Why would I use MDT/WAIK over WDS? Why do both exist?
WDS while it can capture images, it's not an image creator.
MDT/WAIK is an image creator - well sorta. MDT deploys Windows in an exact manor based on the information you give and scripts you setup using WAIK. Then once the install is done, you use WDS to wrap it into an image that you deploy to your users. -
@BBigford said:
If you're wondering why WDS doesn't work for us, I can't explicitly define a driver repository to a certain model. I enter the System Model into the filter, but it doesn't work. I even look up the model in msinfo32 and enter it exactly, still doesn't work. I've tried the option to apply all drivers, and apply only applicable to the hardware. Still seeing certain drivers not installing, or no drivers installed. If I disable all other driver packages except the one the model needs, and don't filter, it works great.
I have the install media built from a VM so as to be very generic, I capture it to WDS, and break out driver packs based on machine models. So I'm not building all different kinds of images. But all images work, if I disable the other driver packages that aren't compatible with that machine currently being imaged.
I haven't messed with driver packs yet, but a problem I did run into is two drivers using the same Identifiers. that leads to confusion, and blown up installs.
I'm wondering if you don't bother with driver packs, and install just put all drivers into a single repo. This is a huge pain in the ass though because you have to make sure you only keep one of each kind of specific drive based on ID. Windows will ignore drivers for things that aren't in the system.
-
@Dashrender said:
@BBigford said:
If you're wondering why WDS doesn't work for us, I can't explicitly define a driver repository to a certain model. I enter the System Model into the filter, but it doesn't work. I even look up the model in msinfo32 and enter it exactly, still doesn't work. I've tried the option to apply all drivers, and apply only applicable to the hardware. Still seeing certain drivers not installing, or no drivers installed. If I disable all other driver packages except the one the model needs, and don't filter, it works great.
I have the install media built from a VM so as to be very generic, I capture it to WDS, and break out driver packs based on machine models. So I'm not building all different kinds of images. But all images work, if I disable the other driver packages that aren't compatible with that machine currently being imaged.
I haven't messed with driver packs yet, but a problem I did run into is two drivers using the same Identifiers. that leads to confusion, and blown up installs.
I'm wondering if you don't bother with driver packs, and install just put all drivers into a single repo. This is a huge pain in the ass though because you have to make sure you only keep one of each kind of specific drive based on ID. Windows will ignore drivers for things that aren't in the system.
When I used SCCM, there was a slight problem with some systems... The system would look into the repository and try to install driver 1, it determined it was the most compatible, which lead to instability in the system. If you load driver 2 on the system, it works great. So we had to setup the task to point so a specific driver group so that the system didn't try to make the decision on its own.
-
yeah automated picking seems to be a constant problem.
-
@Dashrender said:
yeah automated picking seems to be a constant problem.
Ok so now I have a pretty good hold on the differences. I understand that MDT builds the image and WDS deploys it. I guess you can just build it in a VM and capture it with WDS as I am doing it now, but a task sequence and driver repos being more explicit would be nice. I miss that when thinking of SCCM vs. WDS.
The only thing I don't understand is how you capture something with MDT. Because to capture with SCCM or WDS, you PXE to capture (SCCM has a bootable media but that's just it, the capture is from booting). Not sure how you capture with MDT since it isn't bootable.
-
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it. -
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.This link might show it a little better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and MDT is merely building the capture media. That's probably what it is indicating...
http://www.vkernel.ro/blog/sysprep-and-capture-a-windows-image-with-mdt-2012
-
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.I think today is rapidly turning into a f*ck it kind of day. I honestly feel brain dead after this long week.
-
@BBigford said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.I think today is rapidly turning into a f*ck it kind of day. I honestly feel brain dead after this long week.
I'm right there with you..
I'm home.. laptop on lap. .. dozin -
@Dashrender said:
@BBigford said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.I think today is rapidly turning into a f*ck it kind of day. I honestly feel brain dead after this long week.
I'm right there with you..
I'm home.. laptop on lap. .. dozinI'm starting to consider if I should just fight with SCCM. Introducing MDT/WAIK into the environment, when we already have WDS... I am not seeing the benefit of MDT/WAIK & WDS over just using SCCM. We're already using SCCM for the endpoint protection. I set it up then just put it on the back burner for WDS because SCCM is a beast. We only have about 150 employees, SCCM is overkill for that. But MDT & WDS seem to be pushing up against SCCM for just the basic capabilities. Thoughts?
I got away from SCCM more so because it is a sink hole for time, and publishing stuff to distribution points had its own glitches and was just a huge cluster f*ck of frustration when we only reimage about 15 PCs a month.
I considered FOG at one point but then dropped that idea real quick. We can't just do a clone, it has to be something I can build from my workstation and the extra steps in putting machines into inventory for FOG then re-doing the boot and deploying the image via the FOG server is a pain in the ass when I am 300 miles from the workstation. If it was more streamlined to just boot and choose, I'd recommend FOG a whole lot more.
-
I've never used Fog... But I do use Clonezilla. If you need a different version to get over these driver issues, then just do it.. might take less time. Create a baseline VM with all software, then sysprep it, install the image on each type of computer, install drivers, sysprep again, take image.. then deploy.
Since you have SCCM already, I agree, while possibly complex (never had access to SCCM) it's probably the best tools sine you do have access.
One man IT shop?
-
@BBigford said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.This link might show it a little better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and MDT is merely building the capture media. That's probably what it is indicating...
http://www.vkernel.ro/blog/sysprep-and-capture-a-windows-image-with-mdt-2012
interesting.. they do talk about capturing... it uses WinPE to create the image.. no big deal there.. I'd be surprised if SCCM didn't do the same or PXE.
-
@Dashrender said:
@BBigford said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm lost - why do you need to capture something with MDT? You give the WIM from the install media to MDT directly, then the other install files, etc..
Then you deploy the image to a device/VM, then capture that with WDS. At least thats how I understand it.This link might show it a little better. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and MDT is merely building the capture media. That's probably what it is indicating...
http://www.vkernel.ro/blog/sysprep-and-capture-a-windows-image-with-mdt-2012
interesting.. they do talk about capturing... it uses WinPE to create the image.. no big deal there.. I'd be surprised if SCCM didn't do the same or PXE.
I'm wondering if they are talking about building the capture image... You can build capture images in WDS, so I'm thinking that it is the same thing. Instead of building it in WDS, you are just building it in MDT then copying that to WDS?
-
I suppose that could be the case.
-
@Dashrender said:
I suppose that could be the case.
I got told that nearly 200 people is too many, and that I should consider moving to "a new tool", and getting off of MDT/WDS. I don't know what else we should switch to... it wasn't until about 6000 seats and considering multiple distribution points that made SCCM really effective.
MDT/WDS seems very effective up to a couple thousand at least. Thoughts?
-
We use WDS approx 30,000 users. The number of users wouldn't really affect how you image if you plan it right. It's not like every user has their own image.
SCCM isn't worth the trouble. You really don't gain much when you count all the time you have to put into it.
Dell KACE is probally one of the best/most flexible options out there. Not cheap though..
-
@Jason said:
We use WDS approx 30,000 users. The number of users wouldn't really affect how you image if you plan it right. It's not like every user has their own image.
SCCM isn't worth the trouble. You really don't gain much when you count all the time you have to put into it.
Dell KACE is probally one of the best/most flexible options out there. Not cheap though..
My friend has a KACE at his work, he loves it.
-
@Jason said in WDS vs. MDT vs. WAIK:
We use WDS approx 30,000 users. The number of users wouldn't really affect how you image if you plan it right. It's not like every user has their own image.
SCCM isn't worth the trouble. You really don't gain much when you count all the time you have to put into it.
Dell KACE is probally one of the best/most flexible options out there. Not cheap though..
Guessing you also use MDT/WAIK for building. Just using WDS to deploy?
