What BASH and SSH Mean for Windows Systems Administration
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The thing about the US is not that employees don't have rights, they actually have a lot of rights and a lot of protections, but Americans all believe that somehow capitalism means no rights
Eh? People actually blame capitalism for them having no rights? I know I hang out with starter than average people, so perhaps I'm shielded from this belief - but damn!
Blame is a strong word. Most of them like it and try to act like it is a good thing. Because what I see is a strong love of anti-capitalism or fake capitalism like the healthcare stuff... there is no capitalism there, that's just corruption. But people love it, so they embrace it even though it hurts them.
Healthcare is anything but capitalism - and so are most businesses in the US today - croni-capitalism.
I see libertarians and certain Republicans make the distinction, as if there is a difference. Exactly how do we avoid croni-capitalism? It reminds me of the arguments of "returning to the constitution", as if that exact same constitution wasn't the one which allowed all of this to happen in the first place. Capitalism encourages selfishness and encourages hording of property (assets, money, et al), therefore it will always have some corruption, even if you say "well we just need to get rid of croni-capitalism," that's like saying "we can have fire without heat."
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I'm not sure what the issue is here? Other than working harder - getting more education that enables you to changing careers into one that earns more - what other options do they have to have previously earned more? Would they be millionaires? probably not, but they don't need to be either to be much better off.
Degrees are known to hurt your chances, not increase them. Getting those low earners to go to college is actually part of the system keeping them poor!
mostly the rich get rich because of connections, being lucky or being really smart. Only the last of those is really a good thing.
I didn't say degrees, I said education - most likely self taught or intern type stuff if what I was going for. You flip burgers for a living today - get a book, learn how to support computers, change careers and change your earning potential. Or learn how to take care of lawns, etc and go work for a high end golf course - do something. Don't just sit there and say the man is keeping you down.
This is tantamount to you working the hotel at night to learn those skills.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Someone recently posted on Facebook how much money it would cost me every week to fund Bernie's universal healthcare, universal education, higher wages, and such.
And my thought was.... damn, who total ass would not be willing to spend that little money to make life so much better for so many people.
And yet... most people feel that way.
And the post didn't mention how much less taxes were needed for the whole plan, it was a fake, inflated number to make it look bad and, in reality, it showed just how smart the plan is that even the fake inflated numbers can't make it look bad.
I am amazed at how little those social services would cost. Even if they are on the low-end of estimation it would be a massive benefit for the small increase in taxes. Especially after what we learned from things like the Panama papers.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Now I don't know anyone who doesn't believe they are due at least minimum wage.
Actually, minimum wage is a myth. Thanks to unions you can be forced to go below it!
Eh? how so? Looking to educate myself here.
A union can negotiate the workers down to minimum wage on paper. Then can, through special union laws, force the workers to pay to work. And the union can take that fee out of their paycheck, literally lowering their pay rate. The union can be owned or controlled by the business in order to ensure that there is no voting or ability to stop the union.
Welcome to what the poor vote for in America. Unions are a very simple means of tricking the poor into lowering their value and making them thankful that it happened to them. It's like the lotto, it's a tax on the poor.
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@coliver said:
There is an interesting adage about Americans. I was told this by a European friend. It goes something like this:
In America if you offered a man a choice
A)You would give him $50,000 with the stipulation that all of his neighbors also got $50,000
or
B)You would give him $30,000 and his neighbors got nothing
He would most likely pick the because he earned it and he doesn't want to help any freeloaders.Not sure if it is true or not but it seems to be a running joke in Europe
Not a joke really, it is exactly what I would expect to be the common answer. If everyone gets the same, you aren't better than them. But if only you get less, you still have more than teh others.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
mindset is out there, but I don't think it applies to healthcare by the masses. Tons of other things, sure, Lamborghini's etc. but not healthcare - I think most people would be happy to see everyone get care when they are sick.
The voting says very, very much otherwise. Nearly everyone that I've seen state that they are not in favour of nationalised healthcare says it for this reason - they don't want to be paying for other people who get sick. I see constantly people saying that they don't think we should take care of the sick unless the sick are rich enough to cover it themselves.
That's because of the broken costs involved in healthcare. We non healthcare people look at healthcare and the massive amounts of costs that we are charged and just figure we're all being ripped off. If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
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@coliver said:
I am amazed at how little those social services would cost. Even if they are on the low-end of estimation it would be a massive benefit for the small increase in taxes.
What Europe has taught us is that they don't cost anything, they save money. A LOT of money. That it would cost anything at all is actually fake. It would generate more money. A healthy, educated, safe populace is more productive.
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@Dashrender said:
If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
I think that's true, but for so long Americans have seen everyone else as moochers, they usually don't see them as people equal to themselves in struggle, desire, pain, etc.
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@Dashrender said:
That's because of the broken costs involved in healthcare. We non healthcare people look at healthcare and the massive amounts of costs that we are charged and just figure we're all being ripped off. If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
Maybe but, I doubt it. Even knowing without a doubt since everyone has that healthcare today, Americans are adamant about not wanting cheap, universal healthcare. Even if it lowers their own costs, they don't want it. If they did, we'd have it by now.
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@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
I think that's true, but for so long Americans have seen everyone else as moochers, they usually don't see them as people equal to themselves in struggle, desire, pain, etc.
Exactly. Americans hate the idea of anyone getting something unfairly for the good.
Europe: It's worth a few moochers making out well as long as no one innocently suffers.
America: It's worth a lot of innocents suffering to make sure no moochers takes advantage of me. -
@scottalanmiller said:
Someone recently posted on Facebook how much money it would cost me every week to fund Bernie's universal healthcare, universal education, higher wages, and such.
And my thought was.... damn, who total ass would not be willing to spend that little money to make life so much better for so many people.
And yet... most people feel that way.
And the post didn't mention how much less taxes were needed for the whole plan, it was a fake, inflated number to make it look bad and, in reality, it showed just how smart the plan is that even the fake inflated numbers can't make it look bad.
I don't suppose you recall the number? And why would taxes be lower than they are today?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@tonyshowoff said:
@Dashrender said:
If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
I think that's true, but for so long Americans have seen everyone else as moochers, they usually don't see them as people equal to themselves in struggle, desire, pain, etc.
Exactly. Americans hate the idea of anyone getting something unfairly for the good.
Europe: It's worth a few moochers making out well as long as no one innocently suffers.
America: It's worth a lot of innocents suffering to make sure no moochers takes advantage of me.Wow... that's almost exactly how quite a few people have explained it to me.
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@coliver said:
There is an interesting adage about Americans. I was told this by a European friend. It goes something like this:
In America if you offered a man a choice
A)You would give him $50,000 with the stipulation that all of his neighbors also got $50,000
or
B)You would give him $30,000 and his neighbors got nothing
He would most likely pick the because he earned it and he doesn't want to help any freeloaders.Not sure if it is true or not but it seems to be a running joke in Europe
This definitely seems to be a theme in this thread this morning.
Not sure why anyone else would care what their neighbor has as long as it's not directly affecting them.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Someone recently posted on Facebook how much money it would cost me every week to fund Bernie's universal healthcare, universal education, higher wages, and such.
And my thought was.... damn, who total ass would not be willing to spend that little money to make life so much better for so many people.
And yet... most people feel that way.
And the post didn't mention how much less taxes were needed for the whole plan, it was a fake, inflated number to make it look bad and, in reality, it showed just how smart the plan is that even the fake inflated numbers can't make it look bad.
I don't suppose you recall the number? And why would taxes be lower than they are today?
Taxes as we see them wouldn't necessarily be lower. Effective tax rate would probably be though. Remember health insurance and the penalty for no health insurance are both taxes paid for by you and your employer. From the math that I have seen the average American will save ~$5,000 a year. Some will not save at all but only at the very high income levels.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
There is an interesting adage about Americans. I was told this by a European friend. It goes something like this:
In America if you offered a man a choice
A)You would give him $50,000 with the stipulation that all of his neighbors also got $50,000
or
B)You would give him $30,000 and his neighbors got nothing
He would most likely pick the because he earned it and he doesn't want to help any freeloaders.Not sure if it is true or not but it seems to be a running joke in Europe
This definitely seems to be a theme in this thread this morning.
Not sure why anyone else would care what their neighbor has as long as it's not directly affecting them.
I've seen similar polls before, one was:
A) You make $60,000 a year, but so does everyone else
B) You make $50,000 a year, but everyone else makes $40,000Most people pick B, even though it's a bad choice. I think it has to do with a lot of Americans believing that not everyone can do a little better, only a few can do a lot better. Of course even in capitalism that's not true, as the standards of living rise even on the lowest levels steadily. It's related to the F you I got mine thing above I talked about.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Now I don't know anyone who doesn't believe they are due at least minimum wage.
Actually, minimum wage is a myth. Thanks to unions you can be forced to go below it!
Eh? how so? Looking to educate myself here.
A union can negotiate the workers down to minimum wage on paper. Then can, through special union laws, force the workers to pay to work. And the union can take that fee out of their paycheck, literally lowering their pay rate. The union can be owned or controlled by the business in order to ensure that there is no voting or ability to stop the union.
Welcome to what the poor vote for in America. Unions are a very simple means of tricking the poor into lowering their value and making them thankful that it happened to them. It's like the lotto, it's a tax on the poor.
I've never been a fan of unions - and this just adds one more reason to the pile.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
I am amazed at how little those social services would cost. Even if they are on the low-end of estimation it would be a massive benefit for the small increase in taxes.
What Europe has taught us is that they don't cost anything, they save money. A LOT of money. That it would cost anything at all is actually fake. It would generate more money. A healthy, educated, safe populace is more productive.
Except that you now have to find work for all those unemployed insurance company workers
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I don't think I've seen a topic more derailed. Is topic splitting even possible on nodeBB yet?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That's because of the broken costs involved in healthcare. We non healthcare people look at healthcare and the massive amounts of costs that we are charged and just figure we're all being ripped off. If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
Maybe but, I doubt it. Even knowing without a doubt since everyone has that healthcare today, Americans are adamant about not wanting cheap, universal healthcare. Even if it lowers their own costs, they don't want it. If they did, we'd have it by now.
really ? You really think they don't want cheaper yet better healthcare?
a problem that I have is that I don't believe them. I look at things like the Snowden leaks and don't believe a damned thing the government says it does to help us.
can it be done cheaper? Hell yea it can! Get rid of insurance companies that alone will save billions a year, somehow get drugs and drug search done non for profit, again massive savings to everyone.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That's because of the broken costs involved in healthcare. We non healthcare people look at healthcare and the massive amounts of costs that we are charged and just figure we're all being ripped off. If those costs are really, truly lower, I think people in general would be good with not seeing others suffer and getting help.
Maybe but, I doubt it. Even knowing without a doubt since everyone has that healthcare today, Americans are adamant about not wanting cheap, universal healthcare. Even if it lowers their own costs, they don't want it. If they did, we'd have it by now.
really ? You really think they don't want cheaper yet better healthcare?
a problem that I have is that I don't believe them. I look at things like the Snowden leaks and don't believe a damned thing the government says it does to help us.
can it be done cheaper? Hell yea it can! Get rid of insurance companies that alone will save billions a year, somehow get drugs and drug search done non for profit, again massive savings to everyone.
If you just get rid of insurance companies, if you get injured or get cancer, or anything that costs more than you can pay right now, you'll be probably worse off than if you had insurance under a more expensive system.
