Medical Insurance in the US
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@scottalanmiller said:
@marcinozga said:
Appendix removal is considered essential health benefit and must be covered by all insurance plans offered in healthcare marketplace. And as such is not subject to any caps or limits.
Good luck with that in real life.
There's an army of lawyers ready to jump on cases like that.
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@Dashrender said:
With email, I can get you to install malware and now I'm seeing everything on your computer, including your email - do you can't attack a fax machine like that.
I disagree because physical access is trivially easy in comparison. Getting malware to grab email to a targeted, rather than random, location is very hard. Tapping a phone line is so easy that the phone company has equipment that "just does this." It's not even tapping, it's a standard diagnostic system. It's actually "within operational parameters."
Email doesn't have to live on your computer like that. By that extension, you could say that faxes end up in the garbage or you could see them sitting on a desk. Faxes remain less secure inside the office too, but that's not what we are talking about. After the fax has gone through it is paper, not a fax. And once email has been received it is a file, not email. What if the email printed out and never got saved to a file, that's an option. but we would never do that because it is less secure. But that's where a fax starts.
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@Dashrender said:
The side channel communication method adds a layer of insulation, if not actual protection.
While relatively minor, how is extra insulation different from protection?
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What do you mean pay twice?
How can there be no coverage? because you aren't living in the US?
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
I have asthma, a history of asthma attacks, and still my insurance (at least through my employer) is $8k'ish plus the high deductable.. no where near $40K
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
What you do stand a good chance of doing though, is choosing the wrong fax number from a contact list to send to, but like email, that's not any more or less dangerous.
That part is true. But still more dangerous than a phone call where you get a second opportunity to verify.
But no matter what, fax remains the most insecure tool. You can consider it "secure enough" but if you do, everything is secure enough.
Well, this is a statement to what you've said before about regulation... It really does work to make things less secure, not more. But I can tell you in health care, it wouldn't matter.
Oh speaking of healthcare - how do european doctors share information between each other?
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@Dashrender said:
What do you mean pay twice?
How can there be no coverage? because you aren't living in the US?
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
I have asthma, a history of asthma attacks, and still my insurance (at least through my employer) is $8k'ish plus the high deductable.. no where near $40K
Pre-existing conditions shouldn't matter anymore. That's one part that obamacare got right.
https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/pre-existing-conditions/ -
@Dashrender said:
What do you mean pay twice?
I'd have to pay once for insurance to satisfy the Obamacare requirement. Then pay again for insurance that covers my family as there is no plan that does both. So two plans are needed.
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@Dashrender said:
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
Has nothing to do with Texas. It's the US Fed that doesn't provide protection for all people. It's even been spoken about in Congress, I think, that there were major oversights with big gaps for people like me without any coverage offered but penalties levied anyway.
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@Dashrender said:
Oh speaking of healthcare - how do european doctors share information between each other?
They give you paper and let you take it to the next place.
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@Dashrender said:
How can there be no coverage? because you aren't living in the US?
Correct, a US citizen residing outside of the US but being in the US for a few too many days means we carry the fully requirements for US insurance legally without having any (or only trivial) coverage provided by them. If you are 100% outside of the US and don't return, you are okay. But if you have family to visit like us, you get seriously screwed.
Sadly, no Obamacare qualifying plan provides coverage when you are outside of the US.
There is a reason why travellers plans come in two types: global traveller and global traveller with US. US coverage is the singular country not normally covered by all the international insurance companies.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
$40K - holy hell - Texas must just be screwing it's people over like crazy.. I've never hear of a family plan costing $40K/yr to cover a family of 4. Did you have every pre-existing condition in the book? and they are hedging their bets on that?
Has nothing to do with Texas. It's the US Fed that doesn't provide protection for all people. It's even been spoken about in Congress, I think, that there were major oversights with big gaps for people like me without any coverage offered but penalties levied anyway.
What makes you a special case - and let's assume you were not a world traveler, but a person only living in the US.
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@Dashrender said:
I have asthma, a history of asthma attacks, and still my insurance (at least through my employer) is $8k'ish plus the high deductible.. no where near $40K
All depends on how much your employer decides to dip into the insurance profits. US healthcare law provides for employers to profit from the system and if they do so, they still get to lock you out from other options. It's horrible.
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@Dashrender said:
@marcinozga said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
And I don't know how you'd ever deal with a catastrophic event. Or even semi-, like when my daughter had her appendix out last year.
I've had my appendix out and the cost was less than what I would pay in insurance per year. So you'd simply deal with that by saving carefully for a year and then you are covered.
Since most insurance has a cap that is pretty low, catastrophic events aren't covered at all.
A single brown recluse spider bite can run the bill into 100k+ range, so without insurance you're bankrupt. My wife just got antibiotics for IBS, 30 day supply cost 2k.
Where did you have that appendix procedure? In NY, a day in hospital cost over 2k, anesthesiologist will change at least 1k for simple procedure, add surgeon and other costs and you're probably getting close to 4-5k. You can buy whole year insurance for less.Scott's claim is sure, you can buy whole year insurance for less, but not one that covers an appendix removal.
Though I think Scott just has had crappy insurance everytime he's tried to use it.
I have BCBS and they are awesome - sure high premiums - I think my office pays something like $5-8K year for me, and on top of that I have a $5K deductible.
As a very low user of insurance this is good for me - when I had eye surgery a few years ago - I hit my $5K limit and I didn't another penny that year.There are times when having insurance helps, for sure. My cochlear implant was $30k, and that was just the surgery and the implant device.
Needless to say, I definitely cleared my deductible last year, lol... I am also on BCBS.
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@Dashrender said:
What makes you a special case - and let's assume you were not a world traveler, but a person only living in the US.
If I live only in the US, I might have reasonable options (not reasonable by any non-US standard but...) but as I don't, I don't. I've lived outside of the US since Obamacare came into effect and removed any option of coverage.
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@dafyre said:
There are times when having insurance helps, for sure. My cochlear implant was $30k, and that was just the surgery and the implant device.
Like I keep demonstrating, that would have been way cheaper for me out of pocket than to have insurance when I had insurance just a few years ago.
And like most things like that, you can optionally leave the US and get it much cheaper too. Only emergency services would I use in the US anyway.
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I've had a CPAP for a decade. Even when I had insurance it was cheaper to pay out of pocket than to use the insurance!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
How can there be no coverage? because you aren't living in the US?
Correct, a US citizen residing outside of the US but being in the US for a few too many days means we carry the fully requirements for US insurance legally without having any (or only trivial) coverage provided by them. If you are 100% outside of the US and don't return, you are okay. But if you have family to visit like us, you get seriously screwed.
Sadly, no Obamacare qualifying plan provides coverage when you are outside of the US.
There is a reason why travellers plans come in two types: global traveller and global traveller with US. US coverage is the singular country not normally covered by all the international insurance companies.
That's really special case and I guess affects tiny fraction of US population. For huge majority, health insurance is much cheaper than not having it and end up paying out of pocket.
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@marcinozga said:
Pre-existing conditions shouldn't matter anymore. That's one part that obamacare got right.
https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/pre-existing-conditions/In theory. I'm pro-OC in general, it screws me to high heaven, but the idea is good. But the system is so bad and so corrupt that I don't have confidence in the no pre-existing conditions thing. As someone who has been turned down for a burst appendix surgery, I am acutely (see what I did there) aware that the system has ways of not paying for things one way or another.
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@marcinozga said:
That's really special case and I guess affects tiny fraction of US population. For huge majority, health insurance is much cheaper than not having it and end up paying out of pocket.
Perhaps that is true. But for a decade of my life that has not been true and I know several people who have run the numbers, and live in the US full time, and still find it cheaper to be without insurance. People on this forum, too. Sure, it might be under 50% of people, but I don't think that it is a tiny sliver, either. It's way too common when normal people doing normal things can pay the penalties and still save money on long term health care. And I'm super healthy, I have one of the best medical track records possible, and I still am not affordable.
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@marcinozga said:
... and end up paying out of pocket.
I think that part of the trick of American health care is that they never have people test that theory. Those that do often realize that the insurance cost is higher than it should be.
