How to Get Technician Buy-In for an Outsourced Network Operations Center (NOC)
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@GlennBarley said:
@RojoLoco I wish I could help you out more, but as I said, you can easily get pricing from a quick conversation. We're not keeping them top secret, I just don't have the authority to share that information on a public forum.
If we can get pricing that way, so can customers. And anyone could turnaround and share it. That's security through obscurity as an excuse for off putting high pressure sales.
Which means two critical things are being misunderstood:
- That you've advertised that you are actively relying on security through obscurity.
- That you've decided that having an open conversation in an open market isn't worthwhile.
That's what your statement sounds like to experienced IT people. You think it sounds like an invitation to call, to us, you've just told us that you don't have something worth discussing or that you don't feel that our time is valuable.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Pricing was never a barrier for me regarding Continuum, if and I mean if, they deliver a really great service, then the price is justified.
What price is that?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
In terms of price, it is competitive. If you want to know specifics, ask.
We did, they didn't answer (see above.)The reason that MSPs don't advertise prices is because they don't have standard prices. It's not a service that can be priced with a flat rate. If we do "true" MSP services, then pretty much all MSPs advertise their prices. For the kind of business as Continuum, which they are an MSP, it's standard to advertise prices and their competitors do.
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@RojoLoco said:
@Dashrender that is exactly what I was getting at. I mean, @GlennBarley has a good sounding explanation of the why not, but that's still the wrong answer for most of us.
Especially as this discussion has been had before, it's not new and should not come as a surprise how not exposing prices will be perceived. That information was provided proactively by the community.
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If you are a HP reseller, HP give you a list price for their machines at your reseller rate, you then tack on added value services and reach a final price. Do HP publicly disclose those margins? No because they leave it up to their resellers.
For commodity items, software, hardware, I agree price should be up front, but Continuum is about taking what they have at X price, adding your own value to that service and coming up with a final Y price.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
If you are a HP reseller, HP give you a list price for their machines at your reseller rate, you then tack on added value services and reach a final price. Do HP publicly disclose those margins? No because they leave it up to their resellers.
We don't want margins. HP DOES disclose the rack rate. So we want the same thing that HP provides here. No more, no less. We don't want to know any discounts nor what resellers are selling it as.
Remember as customers, there is no channel between us and the vendor here. The price is just the price.
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@scottalanmiller said:
We don't want margins. HP DOES disclose the rack rate. So we want the same thing that HP provides here.
You do want margins
Because if Continuum say our price is X and their direct MSP says the price is Y. Anyone with a calculator can work out the price difference between the MSPs offering and Continuums. -
@Breffni-Potter said:
For commodity items, software, hardware, I agree price should be up front, but Continuum is about taking what they have at X price, adding your own value to that service and coming up with a final Y price.
Right, no one is asking for margin info. We are asking for the X price. Assuming there is one. Although I assume that the price is bad, say want you want, but people disclose prices they are proud of - when the value is a selling point.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
You do want margins
Nope, I just want the price. The margins are my decision. Continuum doesn't even get to know the margins. No one can decide on those but the customer. But I can't determine margins because I can't get the price.
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My problem is, I am in early EARLY conversations with them, evaluating what they have, what they do, ect.
I've not even set a pricing structure for how they fit in yet
That's why I'm not saying publicly. -
@Breffni-Potter said:
Because if Continuum say our price is X and their direct MSP says the price is Y. Anyone with a calculator can work out the price difference between the MSPs offering and Continuums.
So you are saying that there is no value add? That's easy, you should never buy through a reseller then and only direct. If you want to know how much of a deal that will be, just call and Continuum will tell you.
No one is getting protected here, customers will find out if they want.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
I've not even set a pricing structure for how they fit in yet
That's why I'm not saying publicly.How does that play in? Do they require a NDA to have a conversation with them? That's the same as telling us to jump off a bridge.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Because if Continuum say our price is X and their direct MSP says the price is Y. Anyone with a calculator can work out the price difference between the MSPs offering and Continuums.
So you are saying that there is no value add?
It is up to each MSP to understand how they can add value, if you are a dumb reseller of the service, then there is no value. This is true of ALL products/services.
Which is why, I am in the middle of looking at that.
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Here is the bottom line... we are asking for a price.
It's that simple. Is the product good enough to tell us about or not? Calling for a price isn't respectful of the potential customer's time. Why would any one invest half an hour to find out if it is worth having spent the half an hour at all?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
It is up to each MSP to understand how they can add value, if you are a dumb reseller of the service, then there is no value. This is true of ALL products/services.
If this is true, then the reasons that we have been told why we can't get the prices don't hold up.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
I've not even set a pricing structure for how they fit in yet
That's why I'm not saying publicly.How does that play in? Do they require a NDA to have a conversation with them? That's the same as telling us to jump off a bridge.
Scott you are leaping all over the place with assumptions. There is no NDA.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Which is why, I am in the middle of looking at that.
If you have value to add, then you have no reason not to disclose the price. The margin cannot be determined from the price.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
I've not even set a pricing structure for how they fit in yet
That's why I'm not saying publicly.How does that play in? Do they require a NDA to have a conversation with them? That's the same as telling us to jump off a bridge.
Scott you are leaping all over the place with assumptions. There is no NDA.
I didn't assume. Read what I said, I never said that.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
It is up to each MSP to understand how they can add value, if you are a dumb reseller of the service, then there is no value. This is true of ALL products/services.
If this is true, then the reasons why we can't get the prices are lies.
No, the reasons why you can't get the price is because of marketing choices. I've avoided them for months due to their marketing, the only reason I am talking to them now is to find out what they do, how good they are and if they are a good fit.
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Asking you how they are getting you not to disclose a price is nothing like assuming that they did it. I asked IF there was an NDA. You answered. I assumed nothing.
