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    Power Loss Followthrough

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
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    • BRRABillB
      BRRABill
      last edited by

      Still would always recommend enterprise level SSDs for servers though, right?

      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller @BRRABill
        last edited by

        @BRRABill said:

        Still would always recommend enterprise level SSDs for servers though, right?

        No, they are rarely recommended except for getting integrated support. In almost any situation where you would be in a position to choose, you'd choose consumer.

        BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • BRRABillB
          BRRABill @scottalanmiller
          last edited by

          @scottalanmiller said:

          No, they are rarely recommended except for getting integrated support. In almost any situation where you would be in a position to choose, you'd choose consumer.

          But only if behind a RAID controller with cache though, right?

          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • scottalanmillerS
            scottalanmiller @BRRABill
            last edited by

            @BRRABill said:

            @scottalanmiller said:

            No, they are rarely recommended except for getting integrated support. In almost any situation where you would be in a position to choose, you'd choose consumer.

            But only if behind a RAID controller with cache though, right?

            Why would RAID matter?

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              A RAID cache is always recommended .... for SSD because it reduces write wear, for Winchesters because it adds so much performance.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • BRRABillB
                BRRABill
                last edited by

                My line of though was

                consumer SSD theoreticallly has less writes
                the RAID controller saves, as you said, a ton of writes

                hence if you get a consumer drive, you;d want to pair it with the RAID controller with cache to save the writes. we had a whole thread on that.

                scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                  last edited by

                  @BRRABill said:

                  hence if you get a consumer drive, you;d want to pair it with the RAID controller with cache to save the writes. we had a whole thread on that.

                  But having a RAID card is the starting assumption for any important workload. The choice of consumer versus enterprise is not driven by it because it is an assumed starting point.

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                  • DashrenderD
                    Dashrender
                    last edited by

                    I don't think RAID controller vs non-RAID controller was his point.

                    His point was cache vs non-cache from what I was reading.

                    Even if Enterprise Drives have a longer write life than consumer drives, why spend the clock cycles writing things to the drive that change while they exist in cache.

                    I suppose my question is, does RAID cache in front of SSDs provide any performance boast? I suppose it could in that the RAID controller will confirm to the app that the data is written before the SSDs below the RAID controller could, speeding up the processing.

                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • BRRABillB
                      BRRABill
                      last edited by BRRABill

                      Well, to take a step back, I always thought the reasoning behind enterprise class SSD was
                      a) -- power loss circuitry to prevent data loss
                      b -- longer write cycle life
                      c -- onboard caching

                      If a RAID controller
                      a -- takes care of this for us
                      b -- absorbs all the writes
                      c -- disables this caching

                      Why would one ever recommend an enterprise level SSD behind a raid controller? Or are you saying they (You) wouldn't?

                      EXCEPT if you needed to maintain system conformity (all DELL) or get a feature like the LEDs in DELL server that the EDGE SSDs give you?

                      scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @Dashrender
                        last edited by

                        @Dashrender said:

                        I don't think RAID controller vs non-RAID controller was his point.

                        Assumptions:

                        • All business class storage workloads are on RAID or equivalent (like RAIN).
                        • All business class RAID has cache.
                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • scottalanmillerS
                          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                          last edited by

                          @BRRABill said:

                          Well, to take a step back, I always thought the reasoning behind enterprise class SSD was
                          a) -- power loss circuitry to prevent data loss
                          b -- longer write cycle life
                          c -- onboard caching even in the Winchester era, this was disabled which is why enterprise drives had little to no cache and consumers have big cache.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller
                            last edited by

                            The reasons for enterprise SSDs are primarily:

                            • Integrated support from the server vendor
                            • Longer write lifetimes
                            BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                              last edited by

                              @BRRABill said:

                              Why would one ever recommend an enterprise level SSD behind a raid controller? Or are you saying they (You) wouldn't?

                              With rare exception, only when you want integrated support from your vendor or need controller support for the firmware.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • BRRABillB
                                BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller said:

                                • Longer write lifetimes

                                When would this be applicable, since you mention it here, but only recommend enterprise class in rare cases, none of which of the rare cases mention this.

                                scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmillerS
                                  scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                  last edited by

                                  @BRRABill said:

                                  @scottalanmiller said:

                                  • Longer write lifetimes

                                  When would this be applicable, since you mention it here, but only recommend enterprise class in rare cases, none of which of the rare cases mention this.

                                  When you have systems that are hard to get to, generally. Like on ships or in Antarctica and shipping replacement drives there is very costly and difficult.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • BRRABillB
                                    BRRABill
                                    last edited by

                                    So just to confirm

                                    • if you aren't in Antarctica and
                                    • you are assumed to be using a Raid card with cache, and
                                    • you don't need manufacturer integrated support

                                    ...consumer is the way to go.

                                    Regular consumer (like the Samsung EVO 850) or the Pro consumer (Evo 850 PRO)?

                                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • DashrenderD
                                      Dashrender
                                      last edited by Dashrender

                                      The problem that this boils down to is... you want to use Dell hardware, but non dell HDs. This is a mismatch.

                                      @scottalanmiller , would you say that it's probably a good time for SMBs to consider moving away from Dell/HP and more toward SuperMicro because you can use your own drives more freely with the RAID controller you install there?

                                      of course, you probably don't get things like front panel lights on failing/failed drives?

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • BRRABillB
                                        BRRABill
                                        last edited by

                                        I'm not talking about my situation, just in general.

                                        Concept and theory.

                                        Just to learn.

                                        I fully understand what I have done with the DELL drives. 😉

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • BRRABillB
                                          BRRABill
                                          last edited by

                                          I really originally never thought about why you;d have to worry about power loss if you have a UPS, which is what started this thread.

                                          DashrenderD scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • DashrenderD
                                            Dashrender @BRRABill
                                            last edited by

                                            @BRRABill said:

                                            I really originally never thought about why you;d have to worry about power loss if you have a UPS, which is what started this thread.

                                            Because, if you're like me, it's definitely worth having the UPSs, but it's not worth it to install generators. Of course if you have short term battery power, say 15 mins, I suppose you should probably have scripts etc in place to start shutting down your servers when you loose power for more than say 5 mins.

                                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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