So we are leaving..............
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It's been done, now one of 3 things will happen.
A golden age will take place and our economy will be 200% better.
Armageddon will fall upon us and lots of middle class kids won't be able to take gap years around Europe anymore (sniffle)
This entire thing will be over-turned and we'll stay in the EU anyway.I'll just leave this here.
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Stuff this, tea party on the ceiling.
Anyone want to join me?
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@DustinB3403 said in So we are leaving..............:
Being an "American" (take that in every way you possible can) I just don't really see the big deal.
To me, trades will change for that part of the world, commerce will certainly change as well. Population movements will likely change as well.
But how does this effect me?
I'm just not seeing why I should care. Besides being something to talk about.
So here is my view on this from the left side of the pond perspective:
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Trade will change for "that part of the world" and America is more in that part of the world than in any other. Not only is the EU the world's largest economy, it is America's largest partner in everything from economics, trade, defence, etc. America is about second in line for having the biggest impact from this.
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This will likely tank the global economy for a significant portion of our lifetimes. This is huge.
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This changes the global balance of power and greatly diminishes sensible Europe at a time when it is most needed. This move was heavily promoted by Trump who, in turn, is heavily promoted by Putin because Putin (and the entire east) see Trump as an easily manipulated puppet that wants Putin's approval and lives in abject fear of everything so Russia will be pulling his strings (already is, the Balkans laugh about the US being a joke now.) Likewise, the UK is seen as likely following the US here and becoming a near puppet of the US as their influence falls to near zero (think about how trivial Texas' voice would be if they were their own country.) So this is an insanely large power play for the CIS and possibly the trigger of the largest balance of power in post WW2 era. The UK just played into Russian hands to break up the single largest hedge against insanity in the world.
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The fear based vote in the UK will have massive political influence in the US and likely just got Trump elected as the stories of the two are tightly entwined. This was a proxy Trump / Putin political victory and no matter what the Brits think happened, this is how it will influence the US and Russia.
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The American sphere of influence just dropped dramatically. The UK was America's primary voice in Europe. That's gone. The most powerful block in the world is now very, very independent of American influence (this I see as a very positive move, I'm certainly not anti-Brexit, just anti-Brexit for the UK.)
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Just as the EU might break up from this, this is easily the beginning of the breakup of the US as well. Texas is next up for wanting to leave. And if Texas goes, many US regions have a strong interest to not be all one country. Less likely, of course, but very possible and this move will show American regions that it can happen. Texas and the UK have been being compared throughout the entire process; the US is very entangled here.
I truly believe in twenty years you will look back and say that no single event, at least not one done politically, will have been as big, even for the US, as this unless the US breaks up itself and even that, will likely be triggered from this so would be related.
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@DustinB3403 said in So we are leaving..............:
If they're following Trump's rhetoric, one would assume that they really REALLY want him to be the president.
No, they still hate him. But they don't hate him more than they agree with his values. Hence why they follow what he wants while not exactly following him. He's not their leader, but he is walking the trail in front of them. If that makes sense.
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@Breffni-Potter said in So we are leaving..............:
Stuff this, tea party on the ceiling.
Anyone want to join me?
Earl Grey, extra bergamot, clear & piping hot please. Chocolate digestives for a biccy?
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@Breffni-Potter said in So we are leaving..............:
This entire thing will be over-turned and we'll stay in the EU anyway.
There is a LOT of chance of this.
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@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
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@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
So @thwr you don't like anyone else?
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@DustinB3403 said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
So @thwr you don't like anyone else?
Still reading, was offline the last few hours ...
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@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@DustinB3403 said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
So @thwr you don't like anyone else?
Still reading, was offline the last few hours ...
He's not denying, just stating
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@DustinB3403 said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
So @thwr you don't like anyone else?
Yeah, love all of you... oO
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@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
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@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
https://media.zenfs.com/en_us/gma/us.abcnews.go.com/AP_NYC_train_derailment_jt_131130_16x9_992.jpg
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@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
Sure not, I don't know enough about US politics. My point was just that we are seeing more and more nationalism, raciscm and corruption here in the EU. Just take a look at the last votes: "Front national" in France, AFD ("Alternative für Deutschland" or "Alternative for Germany" in English), just two random examples. It's taking a dangerous route and I think SAM pinpointed that quite good.
What is it that we all are afraid of? Other humans? Oh sorry, should have called them refugees I guess. But I don't think that's the whole story.
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@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
If he wont, I will. Listen to the fucking horseshit that comes out of his mouth. 'Ban muslims' that is all you need to hear. Then go read some of Hitler's speeches. Then tell me their differences. The fact that half of Americans agree with him is beyond disgusting, and proof that at least half of Americans are still racist shitbags(I am American).
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@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
AFD ("Alternative für Deutschland" or "Alternative for Germany" in English),
I'm hoping that no one needed that translated
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@momurda said in So we are leaving..............:
@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
If he wont, I will. Listen to the fucking horseshit that comes out of his mouth. 'Ban muslims' that is all you need to hear. Then go read some of Hitler's speeches. Then tell me their differences. The fact that half of Americans agree with him is beyond disgusting, and proof that at least half of Americans are still racist shitbags(I am American).
Blame me for beeing a German citizen, I don't care in this case: What that scum did was something bestial, and I'm out for any Hitler comparisons. He just did something neither I nor anyone else can probably imagine. We Germans still have a hard time to get around this. There was just another sentence a few months ago against one of his last remaining soldiers: 97yr old Oskar Gröning was found guilty of "accessory to murder" (Google translator...) in roughly 300.000 cases.
So please, compare the next president with a chimp, I don't mind. But comparing someone to Hitler isn't something to be taken lightly.
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@momurda said in So we are leaving..............:
@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
If he wont, I will. Listen to the fucking horseshit that comes out of his mouth. 'Ban muslims' that is all you need to hear. Then go read some of Hitler's speeches. Then tell me their differences. The fact that half of Americans agree with him is beyond disgusting, and proof that at least half of Americans are still racist shitbags(I am American).
One historic thing that people often skip (great read is "America: Summer 1929") is that tons and tons of Hitler's policies did not originate in Germany but on Long Island where the US was regularly talking about rounding up the Jews or slaughtering them or whatever. Hitler had every reason to believe that his actions would placate rather than anger Americans and it was far closer to working than people will admit now most of a century later. That Germany was the one that had the higher Jewish population, the war and the triggers to put things in motion is mostly only happenstance and it was almost certainly going to happen somewhere in the west in that decade or the one that followed.
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@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@momurda said in So we are leaving..............:
@Dashrender said in So we are leaving..............:
@thwr said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@scottalanmiller said in So we are leaving..............:
@coliver said in So we are leaving..............:
@gjacobse said in So we are leaving..............:
I've not really followed the issue to know which side has more benefit - Member or non-Member of the EU. So I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. I suppose time will tell...
Depends, it doesn't make sense to leave from an economic standpoint. It doesn't really make sense to leave from a social standpoint. One of the biggest arguments was that the EU was forcing the UK to open its borders to refugees and immigrants, leaving the EU allowed the UK to better protect itself from those forces.
"Protect itself" from helping those in need is the basic premise we hear in the EU.
No argument there... I agree with you but was trying to present the argument in an unbiased way.
I think protecting itself implies a danger rather than a dislike for helping those of non-European heritage. It's not about danger, it's about dislike. Which is why so many people are so upset about how the vote went from the outside. That the US is anti-Semitic is well known and the level of open racism in the US is what it is. The UK was supposed to be better but this seems to be stooping to the American level and that is very upsetting. This will make it so much easier for Americans to carry on with it to yet another level in their next elections too. It's a snowball effect, just like in the 1920s. Not that it will happen, but this is how it starts.
^^ This. Period. Thanks Scott.
are you saying that trump is the next Hitler?
If he wont, I will. Listen to the fucking horseshit that comes out of his mouth. 'Ban muslims' that is all you need to hear. Then go read some of Hitler's speeches. Then tell me their differences. The fact that half of Americans agree with him is beyond disgusting, and proof that at least half of Americans are still racist shitbags(I am American).
Blame me for beeing a German citizen, I don't care in this case: What that scum did was something bestial, and I'm out for any Hitler comparisons. He just did something neither I nor anyone else can probably imagine. We Germans still have a hard time to get around this. There was just another sentence a few months ago against one of his last remaining soldiers: 97yr old Oskar Gröning was found guilty of "accessory to murder" (Google translator...) in roughly 300.000 cases.
So please, compare the next president with a chimp, I don't mind. But comparing someone to Hitler isn't something to be taken lightly.
If you don't feel that the comparison is a realistic one, you don't understand how scared we are. It's not taken lightly. The difference, and I'll give you this as a reason not to compare them, is that Hitler was a brilliant, talented statesman. Trump is a moronic, bumbling buffoon. So if the comparison is their desire, I truly believe Trump would be Hitler at the drop of a hat if he had the skill to be him. But if the comparison is capability then no, Trump doesn't have what it takes to be a true danger.
