I am heartless?
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@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
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@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Still, we are shocked by how much people let dogs go into the road making cars deal with them. But the culture makes that the norm, very unlike the US. Also, cars go half the speed (often literally) so obstacles are different. It's easier to dodge things when you are rarely going over 35mph.
I've never been to Europe so I could totally be wrong, but I would think of Scotland is much more open then most of Europe. So I would think they would drive faster there. The article even says people treat that road like a highway so traffic must be at a minimum.
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@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
So you skirted my response to you about being able to take the owner/dog to an emergency clinic.
I get the joke about Scott, but let's get back to the topic at hand
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@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
So you skirted my response to you about being able to take the owner/dog to an emergency clinic.
I get the joke about Scott, but let's get back to the topic at hand
I'm done. I gave my opinion you gave yours. What else is there to say?
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@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
So you skirted my response to you about being able to take the owner/dog to an emergency clinic.
I get the joke about Scott, but let's get back to the topic at hand
I'm done. I gave my opinion you gave yours. What else is there to say?
I don't want you to say anything other than what is in your head.
If you think all animals are worthless and stopping to see if there is anything you can do to help is below you then so be it.
But don't act surprised if someone runs you or your child over and doesn't stop either. You essentially expect it from your previous statement.
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In the article it's assumed the driver could not see that it was a dog because of the conditions, but a child could be the approximate size of a dog and been killed just as easily.
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@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
In the article it's assumed the driver could not see that it was a dog because of the conditions, but a child could be the approximate size of a dog and been killed just as easily.
In the article it mentions that the driver didnt try to stop that makes me believe the dog ran out in front in the last second. Otherwise he intentionally hit the dog which I doubt
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@DustinB3403 said in [I am heartless?]
But don't act surprised if someone runs you or your child over and doesn't stop either. You essentially expect it from your previous statement.
You need to go to a physiologist....
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In both cases the driver should have stopped. A child could have easily run out at the last second too.
But in that case we'd likely being sending the parent and driver to jail.
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@Jason said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in [I am heartless?]
But don't act surprised if someone runs you or your child over and doesn't stop either. You essentially expect it from your previous statement.
You need to go to a physiologist....
Maybe.
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@IRJ I get it if you hunt or whatever else, animals are sport.
My argument here is that this wasn't a person out hunting, who got clear conditions, knows what they are looking for etc.
They were driving a car, at night, going faster than the posted speed according to the article's OP, and then hit an animal with their car.
(and don't take it personally, just venting)
In this case, the onus is on the person driving the car to see if there is anything they can do to help. Because it could have easily been a child.
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@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@IRJ I get it if you hunt or whatever else, animals are sport.
My argument here is that this wasn't a person out hunting, who got clear conditions, knows what they are looking for etc.
They were driving a car, at night, going faster than the posted speed according to the article's OP, and then hit an animal with their car.
(and don't take it personally, just venting)
In this case, the onus is on the person driving the car to see if there is anything they can do to help. Because it could have easily been a child.
I don't hunt nor do I shoot animals for sport. I fish which you could argue is the same thing, but fishermen care more about conservation and do more for the environment than people who sit in an office in NYC. I have been involved in Lagoon cleanups, Adopt a mangrove program, and I am hoping to work on an oyster restoration project here in the near future.
https://brevardzoo.org/conservation-programs/mangrove-restoration/
https://brevardzoo.org/conservation-programs/oyster-restoration/
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Just so everyone is clear about where I stand on this issue, I don't think it's acceptable that the person driving the just drove off. Clear they should have stopped.
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@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
Lol, no because of the social norm making the driver responsible, not the dog owner.
In the US, if there was damage to a car from hitting a dog, the dog owner would most likely be liable to it.
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@aaronstuder said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 and we have no proof the driver was speeding (they most likely were) The family doesn't even know if it's a car or truck.... must have been very dark.
I have some older woman on our street that screams at me for speeding often... I usually go about 15 in a 20 zone ('m just overly cautious). Not speeding at all. Humans are terrible judge of speed if she is the standard, so their claims of speeding without any proof are invalid to me. Just sayin...
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Before August, we lived and traveled every day in very rural areas. Everyone that lives out there, bear arms and are very heavy drinkers (mostly farmers and loggers). You really think that I'm going to stop on the side of a dark highway, and start walking around (with traffic zooming by), looking for a house off in the distance where an animal may have originated from (maybe miles away)? No. I've hit a few dogs in my life time in those environments and never stopped to talk to some bat-shit crazy, drunken, trigger happy land owner who just lost their favorite dog. No way in hell I'm doing that in the middle of the night. The last one I hit was on a major highway, at 1am while I had just driven 6 hours from seeing my family in the northern part of the state. There is a leash law in this town, and that highway's speed limit is 70 (day or night). I was going probably 60-65 or so but you can't see a big black Newfoundland in that darkness.
My sisters freaked out when I told them, because I didn't stop. "YOU DIDN'T LOOK FOR THE HOUSE?!" Hell no. It's 1am on a Saturday. I know that stretch of the road. There are so many residents getting DUIs on that stretch. Some drunk wheat farmer would be super pissed I just killed his dog. Should have I drug it up to their porch while I'm at it, like I'm dragging a bag of garbage out to the street? No, you're out of your mind if you think I'm talking to anyone that time of night following an incident.
I am sorry I hit their dog, but I'm not going to put myself in that potential situation because now that we've moved to a much larger place where we've had multiple break in attempts during the night, as well as people running up to our car trying to get in; we started carrying concealed. We even live in a nice neighborhood where the income is above average, no low income housing for about 10 miles... I avoid any confrontation, even if that includes not stopping to inspect a domestic animal I hit going 70. I know it's dead at that speed. Though our laws on that only state you have to call the highway department for carcass removal within 24 hours, dead or alive, if it is a large game animal. You also aren't required to stop unless your vehicle is unsafe for travel.
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@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@IRJ said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
@Dashrender said in I am heartless?:
@scottalanmiller said in I am heartless?:
Something that people need to understand... this is Europe, not the US. Putting a dog on a leash is an unusual thing here. Dogs in the road is very common, you have to avoid them when driving. Cattle, kids, goats, chickens, horses, carts... all common. Drivers need to be more alert. It's hard to avoid everything, but it isn't the US where you assume that it is the job of people to keep animals off of the road, the assumption is that drivers need to avoid all things in the road.
Well that changes things severely.
Why does that change the scenario? Why is the geographic location of the event important?
Because Scott said so....
Lol, no because of the social norm making the driver responsible, not the dog owner.
In the US, if there was damage to a car from hitting a dog, the dog owner would most likely be liable to it.
Couple of points.
Firstly, the OP's article is from Scotland in Connecticut, not Scotland in Europe.
Secondly, I think Scott must be talking about poor, rural, southern European countries like Albania. I assure you we don't have goats and chickens roaming our roads in most of Europe!
In the UK, it is illegal to let your dog off a leash on a public road. 99% of dog owners obey this law. If you hit a dog, you are only required to stop if the owner is present. This make sense as, unlike hitting a child, a stray, injured dog is a risk and the safety of the driver comes first. In the article, the owners clearly weren't present at the accident since they don't even know if their dog was hit by a car or a truck. They may have been close by, but that's different.
I know all this from recent experience, sadly. My friend was out walking her dog recently and the dog got away from her and out of sight round a corner. She hears a bang and shortly after discovers the dog has been hit by a car. The car drove off without stopping and left the dog.
She takes it to the vet and luckily the dog is fine. A bit later the vet phones and says the driver who ran her over has been in touch to find out if the dog is ok and would like my friend to call her. My friend thinks this is strange but calls her to let her know the dog is fine. The driver says ok but she owes her £600 for damage to her car.
I'd have told the driver to f off, but the dog is insured so my friend just passed it on to the insurance company to resolve.
I'm a dog person, but I'm with @aaronstuder on this. I've had a couple of family dogs get run over in my life. One was killed. It's a horrible, horrible experience, but the blame lay with our family for not looking after the dogs well enough. In one case, our dog saw a cat on the other side of the road and ran after it. The speed that she could accelerate and run meant that the car had no chance of stopping.
I'm surprised to read that in the US you are required to stop - I've driven through places in the US where I'd be terrified to stop for anything!
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@Jason said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
Would you want to find the driver who hit and ran if your child was hit while walking down the road at night with their father?
Same thing.
A dog and a human are not the same thing. This is an animal.
@Jason said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
Does it matter if it's a dog a cat or a snake? The pet was family, just like your child is family
Dude, not even the same at all. Don't try to compare animals to a child.
Not to split hairs here - but for some couples who are unable to have children (medically) a pet to you is a child to them. They have the same attachment and love for the animal as they would have for a child if they could have one.
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@gjacobse said in I am heartless?:
@Jason said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
Would you want to find the driver who hit and ran if your child was hit while walking down the road at night with their father?
Same thing.
A dog and a human are not the same thing. This is an animal.
@Jason said in I am heartless?:
@DustinB3403 said in I am heartless?:
Does it matter if it's a dog a cat or a snake? The pet was family, just like your child is family
Dude, not even the same at all. Don't try to compare animals to a child.
Not to split hairs here - but for some couples who are unable to have children (medically) a pet to you is a child to them. They have the same attachment and love for the animal as they would have for a child if they could have one.
It still not the same.
