Why is VMWare considered so often
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He wrote "My experience before I moved to vcenter"
This implies he currently uses vcenter and he previously used ESXi free.
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@coliver said
That's the worst. I had to build my home lab twice to before I remembered that option.
Yes, terrible interface to not highlight that choice.
Everything else is awesome.
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Something to keep in mind about current ESXi Free deployments is that up until less than two years ago, nearly everyone was recommending them (when money mattered.) Hyper-V was not mature yet (maybe still isn't) and XenServer was still crap under Citrix and KVM was (is) too hard to use on its own. It was ESXi for people who needed a GUI and straight Xen for people who needed power at a low cost. Those were the choices.
So tons of ESXi Free is not so new as to have been deployed when it wasn't one of the only two viable choices. That VMware makes no sense to deploy is a pretty recent change since Citrix donated XS to TLF and since Hyper-V has caught up a bit.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
So the Backup API's are magically installed if you upgrade your key from "ESXi Free" to "ESXi Essentials"? I thought they were completely removed from the installation.
Just not there, and to get them you had to install the Essentials ISO to your host.
I thought there was only one version installed and the licence key determines which features are unlocked. When you first install you get all features in a 60 day "evaluation" period, don't you?
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@Carnival-Boy I must've missed that part.
But still the justification of cost for such a tiny deployment of a single host and 2 VM's to have to pay even the $500 seems insane.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But still the justification of cost for such a tiny deployment of a single host and 2 VM's to have to pay even the $500 seems insane.
It is. I think the OP intended to install ESXi Free, because that is what he has used in the past, but thinks that VMware told him it wouldn't work, so he is considering other hypervisors. I believe the answer to his question is either (a) use ESXi Free or (b) use an alternative, free hypervisor.
Personally, I would go for option (a), but (b) is also perfectly valid.
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@Carnival-Boy But you can't even justify using ESXi Free for the very reasons mentioned in this topic.
What benefit do you get to using ESXi over say XenServer?
There are none besides "I'm familiar with with"
Which the learning curve to XenServer is hardly a speed bump in a school parking lot.
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Yeah, "I'm familiar with". That's it.
What benefits do you get using XenServer over ESXi?
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@Carnival-Boy said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
Yeah, "I'm familiar with". That's it.
What benefits do you get using XenServer over ESXi?
All of the tools, the support community, the option to pay for support from Citrix, and that it's as simple, if not simpler to manage and install.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
Yeah, "I'm familiar with". That's it.
What benefits do you get using XenServer over ESXi?
I get being salty and defending ESXi and that you use it because it's what you're familiar with. I'm asking for justification from you and others who use it as to why you wouldn't try XenServer?
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@Carnival-Boy said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
Yeah, "I'm familiar with". That's it.
What benefits do you get using XenServer over ESXi?
Well I find it slightly easier to deal with when anything needs to be done. When both "work" I find them roughly equal as far as ease of use.
XS has a rocking web interface that is expensive and less capable to get on ESXi. That's a big deal making things easier to deal with day to day.
XS comes with backup options built in, ESXi makes you get them from a third party and ESXi Free doesn't offer the same kinds of options no matter what.
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Some of us have found performance gains with XenServer, one bank got 20% higher density leaving VMware. That was big cost savings as they had multiple servers reduced.
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Just to be clear, I'm definitely not saying ESXi is better in anyway and I completely understand why ESXi users in their thousands are choosing to switch to XenServer. If life was a little bit longer, or if I had any interest in hypervisors, I'd probably do the same myself. I just don't think I'm crazy for sticking with ESXi for the time being.
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@scottalanmiller said
XS has a rocking web interface that is expensive and less capable to get on ESXi.
Does it have one native or are you talking about XenOrchestra?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
XS has a rocking web interface that is expensive and less capable to get on ESXi.
Does it have one native or are you talking about XenOrchestra?
XO. No native interface at all, just a robust API.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
XS has a rocking web interface that is expensive and less capable to get on ESXi.
Does it have one native or are you talking about XenOrchestra?
XO. No native interface at all, just a robust API.
Man - this is where I'll disagree. I find the ESXi vshpere client way easier to use than XO. I know XO is in the process of a major UI upgrade, and I hope they bring things closer to the tree style menuing - just easier to get around IMO.
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@Dashrender said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
XS has a rocking web interface that is expensive and less capable to get on ESXi.
Does it have one native or are you talking about XenOrchestra?
XO. No native interface at all, just a robust API.
Man - this is where I'll disagree. I find the ESXi vshpere client way easier to use than XO. I know XO is in the process of a major UI upgrade, and I hope they bring things closer to the tree style menuing - just easier to get around IMO.
XC is the "easy" one, XO is the good one. I think that ESXi lacks an XO quality interface.
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@scottalanmiller said
XC is the "easy" one, XO is the good one. I think that ESXi lacks an XO quality interface.
Yeah but it's not good. It's a metrofied horrible UI with no text labels. Icons for days.
I get the principle of the interface but the execution is awful if you want to get stuff done. It takes up way too much space on screen to do anything, the tool tips which are in XenCentre are gone from Xen Orchestra, all the stuff that people who live and breathe Xen take for granted is missing from a brand new admin.
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And don't get me started on the website.
Documentation exists in one place: https://xen-orchestra.com/#!/faq - What's the first thing people need with a new product? Give it to me in the email link they send, give it to me when I fill in the download form.
The reality is they are a new company, with a really good idea. But the tool on it's current form will end up turning away Hyper-v or VMWare admins, it's not that it's different, it's unhelpfully different. Different can be good.
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@Dashrender haha
I know you love trees, we'll probably create a dedicated view for this. But the new concept will be more centered on the filter/search thing in the home view, see https://xen-orchestra.com/blog/dev-report-2-on-xen-orchestra-5-0/
