Ransomware Management Career Fork
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Right but shes coming from a place where she has her masters degree and operated as the working poor for 7 years. Like everyone she is applying her own experiences to the situation.
I'm unclear how her experience would lead her to taking long term career risks today. What does getting a master's degree and not making much money for a long time have to do with wanting you to risk your financial options and stability down the road?
She's responding with emotions, not with logic @scottalanmiller. She's saying you shouldn't take the risk now because things are OK, we have enough (my GF is saying the same things to me) but if we don't throw those dice, we are taking an even bigger gamble that she isn't accounting for.
It's an emotional response not a logical one in these cases. And only responding in a way that they might understand would get them to change their minds. You should understand that.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Right but shes coming from a place where she has her masters degree and operated as the working poor for 7 years. Like everyone she is applying her own experiences to the situation.
I'm unclear how her experience would lead her to taking long term career risks today. What does getting a master's degree and not making much money for a long time have to do with wanting you to risk your financial options and stability down the road?
She sees the world from a perspective as someone who has a higher degree of knowledge and little opportunity. She would be more likely to take less risk.
Exactly, yet in this case she's being reckless, both with your stability and income as well as with your options.
She would support me regardless but would definitely have a lot of anxiety.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Right but based on her experiences it could be long term risk. She can't accurately see the situation for what it is.
What is her experience that causes this? Is she of the opinion that school makes you so unemployable that you can't risk giving up low paying jobs? You didn't go to school, right? Why is she applying that fear to you? That feels like the opposite of leveraging her experience.
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
She's responding with emotions, not with logic @scottalanmiller.
That's fine, but that's not applying experience. That's ignoring experience.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Right but based on her experiences it could be long term risk. She can't accurately see the situation for what it is.
What is her experience that causes this? Is she of the opinion that school makes you so unemployable that you can't risk giving up low paying jobs? You didn't go to school, right? Why is she applying that fear to you? That feels like the opposite of leveraging her experience.
Lack of opportunity is the experience influencing her. That is an emotional response for sure.
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
She's responding with emotions, not with logic @scottalanmiller.
That's fine, but that's not applying experience. That's ignoring experience.
Emotions often trump experience. (at least initially?)
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
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@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
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What I'm trying to get at is that she can't be applying experience (at least not in a useful way) or observation. Nor is she risk averse.
@DustinB3403 is correct, I think. This is purely emotion and irrational.
What @wirestyle22 has to understand before having this conversation is that he can't use this as "her experience says this" or "she is being conservative" because both of those things are false and will lead to a useless discussion with her.
Understanding that she is ignoring what she has learned AND being reckless because she is feeling anxious is the problem. That can be tackled, but if you ignore those facts, she will reason that they are being risky and he'll be unable to dispute it.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here.
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@wirestyle22 take the find a better job out of the entire statement.
You have no way of knowing if the job is better. It's just another job, that has a better offering. The job could be horrible, worst place in the world, but pays more for it.
If you need more benefits, more pay, you'd take that job. Until you found another position that offered more.
The entire conversation is about honesty.
We want more money, perks, etc and the only way to do that is to find another place of employment.
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@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 take the find a better job out of the entire statement.
You have no way of knowing if the job is better. It's just another job, that has a better offering. The job could be horrible, worst place in the world, but pays more for it.
If you need more benefits, more pay, you'd take that job. Until you found another position that offered more.
The entire conversation is about honesty.
We want more money, perks, etc and the only way to do that is to find another place of employment.
That is what I mean by better
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
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@coliver said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
Right and I'm actively applying.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here.
That does not mean you should quit your job and then look for the better one, though. If you want to find a better job, start looking NOW, and then when you survive the interview process and another company makes you an offer that you like, you can take it, and move on up in the world.
Edit: @coliver beat me to it.
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@wirestyle22 if you're using the term better in the conversation it's a scary meaning, because she it totally thinking "well it could be worse, maybe they don't like you and let you go in a short span"
Just explain what is offered from the possible new position versus what you have today and she'll say go for it. And support you for that.
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Also don't be afraid to negotiate. If they make you an offer it will be a low ball. Counter with a high ball and see if they meet you in the middle or accept .
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There is also two other, related, mistakes that I feel are being made that I would never do. Not that they are wrong because I would never do them
I just avoid them because I think that they are "wrong" from a career risk perspective.-
Never quit then look for work. Find work and quit. There is really no excuse for doing it the other way around if you would ever consider remaining at the job. You only quite then look if there is suddenly something so dangerous, unethical or similar that would make you leave for reasons other than money.
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Never go after more money from your current job than they are going to pay you through the regular channels. This effectively never works and results in poisoning the well. Doing this triggers the end of your relationship because you will always feel like they aren't paying you enough and/or they will always feel that you are being overpaid but managed to bully them at a moment of weakness. Either you will remain unhappy, they will be informed that you going to quit and thus they will begin to replace you or they will be unhappy and look to phase you out. or, of course, all three.
Just avoid these two scenarios. If you don't earn enough, leave. it's that simple. Bargaining once you are employed doesn't end well.
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@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@coliver said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@DustinB3403 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@scottalanmiller said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
@wirestyle22 said in Ransomware Management Career Fork:
Lack of opportunity is the experience.
But she knows that nothing that she has gone through applies to you, right? I think that @DustinB3403 is correct, none of this is applying experience, it's ignoring observation and experience, right?
Yes conceptually she does. That doesn't mean she isn't being influenced heavily by fear. She has this fear because she went through times of extreme poverty herself. So I think it's both.
The only way to discuss this with someone being emotional is to take the emotion out of the equation for her. Tell her how employable you actually are and that there are greater risks of losing your current position or at least good money by not considering other job opportunities.
If you respond with (something like this) "I'm making x now and will likely end up at most making Y within the next 5 years if I stay where I'm at, add in the cost of life, and we are actually losing money.
If I take a tiny bit of risk today, and find a position that has greater opportunity then we are better off today for the next 5 years, when compared to what I'm making today (x). "
I have but there is more to it than that. You guys have seen some of my questionable posts where I lack understanding and cannot even ask a question correctly. I've also posted about how I feel the need to study a lot (and I am) in order to solidify my knowledge enough to get a better job. I'm not extremely confident I can find something either but not because there are no jobs. Just pure honesty here
Doesn't hurt to apply to jobs. Just because you think you aren't qualified doesn't mean you are unqualified. Even just practicing the interview, if it gets that far, will be worth it.
Right and I'm actively applying.
But you are talking about quitting. Why?
