WGET where do you get your URLs from?
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@Breffni-Potter said:
@Dashrender said:
I have no idea what you're talking about? Windows machines, that are locked down by IT, ie, users not installing crap, really don't give any any problems.
But Windows has to be guarded by IT, it is not designed to be safe, that's why.
Setup 2 identical hardware systems, one with Windows 10, one with Linux and give them to the same user. They will break Windows 10 quicker than they will break Linux, no IT hand-holding or management.
hmm... Sadly since Windows 10 doesn't by default make the user create a non admin account to use day to day. You move beyond that then I'd say they would both suffer equally.
But that requirement of having a non admin account would drive many normal users away from using Linux because they simply don't understand the security or be willing to deal with the inconvenience of the two usernames, etc.
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@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
But let's assume you deleted it and wanted one. Just open up the software manager and look for PDF.
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@Dashrender said:
what about software that's not in the repos?
Then you "fall back" in the most extreme case to the Windows way. Remember, Linux does everything Windows does, plus more. You can always do things the "Windows way" if you feel the need or are really stuck.
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@Dashrender said:
If you tell me that I need to do a Google search, how is that any better on Linux than Windows.
- You don't, so this doesn't apply BUT....
- Because you have a verified source that is handled for you. Do a Google search for Windows and you are still stuck guessing. Do a Google search for things in the repos, and you know for sure.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
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@Dashrender said:
But the root question is still - how is someone suppose to know what they need?
- It's likely already installed.
- If it isn't it is almost certainly in the repos.
- In the extreme case that you need something specific and don't know what it is, you might have to fall back to the "always" situation on Windows.
Never harder, once in a while it might be "as hard" but never harder.
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@Dashrender said:
I have no idea what you're talking about? Windows machines, that are locked down by IT, ie, users not installing crap, really don't give any any problems.
That's a pretty big expense to try to mimic Linux out of the box.
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@Dashrender said:
But that requirement of having a non admin account would drive many normal users away from using Linux because they simply don't understand the security or be willing to deal with the inconvenience of the two usernames, etc.
But driving them away isn't a factor here. Yes, it's sad that most end users will choose hard and insecure and well marketed over secure and easy to use. But that's just how they are. Doesn't in any way influence that Linux has an advantage in this arena, though.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
But you had to wait a full decade to catch up.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I have no idea what you're talking about? Windows machines, that are locked down by IT, ie, users not installing crap, really don't give any any problems.
That's a pretty big expense to try to mimic Linux out of the box.
No argument there - Hell even Macs make you do this. I consider this a pretty big blunder on MS's part.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
But you had to wait a full decade to catch up.
Considering Linux still isn't on the average desktop.. this is a rather meaningless statement - but your point is well taken.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
But you had to wait a full decade to catch up.
Considering Linux still isn't on the average desktop.. this is a rather meaningless statement - but your point is well taken.
What does being on the "average" desktop mean? Linux IS on the average end user device. Does that mean that Windows desktop users don't matter?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
But you had to wait a full decade to catch up.
Considering Linux still isn't on the average desktop.. this is a rather meaningless statement - but your point is well taken.
What does being on the "average" desktop mean? Linux IS on the average end user device. Does that mean that Windows desktop users don't matter?
you changed it - I said desktop and you said averaged end user, those are not the same. Please keep apples with apples, and oranges with oranges
You're absolutely right that Linux rules the world, both in servers and end users devices (android phones anyone)... but Linux does not own the desktop at this point, so it's not really relevant to the conversation at this time.
Though MS I'm sure has been gun shy to include these types of services for fear of being called a monopoly like in the 90's.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
As an end user if I want to read a PDF, I might have no clue that Adobe has a program called Acrobat Reader, or Foxit has Foxit Reader, etc. How I am suppose to know what software to install?
Well, it is there by default in any desktop distro. So you don't even have to think about stuff that basic in the least (again, an entire order easier than Windows....)
Not anymore, Windows 8 and newer all included one.
But you had to wait a full decade to catch up.
Considering Linux still isn't on the average desktop.. this is a rather meaningless statement - but your point is well taken.
What does being on the "average" desktop mean? Linux IS on the average end user device. Does that mean that Windows desktop users don't matter?
you changed it - I said desktop and you said averaged end user, those are not the same. Please keep apples with apples, and oranges with oranges
I changed it to make a point. You acted like the fact that the average desktop user is on Windows that that makes Linux have the feature for a decade not important. So I was asking if, following the same logic, that the average end user isn't on Windows if it makes Windows on the desktop not matter either if the "average" of some other thing negates the of some other thing.
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@Dashrender said:
You're absolutely right that Linux rules the world, both in servers and end users devices (android phones anyone)... but Linux does not own the desktop at this point, so it's not really relevant to the conversation at this time.
It is when we are talking about how far behind Windows is.
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@Dashrender said:
Though MS I'm sure has been gun shy to include these types of services for fear of being called a monopoly like in the 90's.
Quality does not get them in trouble for anti-trust.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Though MS I'm sure has been gun shy to include these types of services for fear of being called a monopoly like in the 90's.
Quality does not get them in trouble for anti-trust.
No, including options so no other options are needed does - i.e. IE. How does including a PDF reader not make them act just like they were when IE was bundled in (oh I mean like now :P) Notice how they aren't gunshy anymore... they now have a built in PDF reader.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Though MS I'm sure has been gun shy to include these types of services for fear of being called a monopoly like in the 90's.
Quality does not get them in trouble for anti-trust.
No, including options so no other options are needed does - i.e. IE. How does including a PDF reader not make them act just like they were when IE was bundled in (oh I mean like now :P) Notice how they aren't gunshy anymore... they now have a built in PDF reader.
The bit we were discussing was the need for one to be locked down while the other does not.
