Common Core haters
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@coliver said:
Is there evidence that a private school education is better then a public one? Everything I've read, although not much, has pointed to it being the same or worse.
Mine was far worse. It can be better. Good ones are very good. Bad ones are very bad.
Homeschool takes that to the next level. Good ones are SO good. Bad ones are SO bad.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
And for many, I think just working makes more sense. How many people who, for example, work at the front desk of a hotel as an adult (I did this, I think it's a decent job) would have benefited by starting in that career or one related to it at 14 and getting experience and money when they were younger and contributing to a skill that they could use later in life. They could be fully trained and experienced and ready to be fully qualified adult workers by 16 or 17 and have a long career with a vastly higher lifetime income than the current system which encourages then to not start that career until they have a college degree of worthless information at keeps them out of the workforce until they are 22. That's eight years of making money traded in and four years of losing money. That's huge.
I think we should be teaching social interaction in school a lot more as well. That benefits you in basically every field (and in life) unless you're coding in a room alone. I see adults every day that have no social skills.
Yes, the current school system actively teaches the worst interactions. Paul Graham has a great essay on it in "Hackers and Painters" where he talks about how the school system treats students akin to criminals. They are detained in a thirteen year sentence for something that they did not do and thrown into a social system with guards that often abuse them or don't care for them and fellow inmates with no adult social skills and it becomes Lord of the Flies. Kids don't learn how to behave as adults, they learn how to behave as inmates.
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad and true
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Education is not universal. Parents of kids in public school are often passionate about the school and its budget. However, only parents of academically gifted children tend to be really passionate about the educational value. Parents of average kids want sports, music, arts, safety (everyone wants that), extra curricular stuff, community building and all kinds of non-academic things because their kids are not going to benefit from those good teachers and high end classes - bottom line, most people are average, welcome to math. And the parents of struggling students care about special needs programs. Very poor families focus on food programs and job skills.
this is why we should have focused schools. IE vocations schools, Art schools, Dance etc..
NYC does, but it's rare in the US.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Education is not universal. Parents of kids in public school are often passionate about the school and its budget. However, only parents of academically gifted children tend to be really passionate about the educational value. Parents of average kids want sports, music, arts, safety (everyone wants that), extra curricular stuff, community building and all kinds of non-academic things because their kids are not going to benefit from those good teachers and high end classes - bottom line, most people are average, welcome to math. And the parents of struggling students care about special needs programs. Very poor families focus on food programs and job skills.
this is why we should have focused schools. IE vocations schools, Art schools, Dance etc..
Problem with that is what would any of us have done? I would have likely done a vocational school but was a musician. I would have been totally unable to choose and likely would have done something terrible.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
And for many, I think just working makes more sense. How many people who, for example, work at the front desk of a hotel as an adult (I did this, I think it's a decent job) would have benefited by starting in that career or one related to it at 14 and getting experience and money when they were younger and contributing to a skill that they could use later in life. They could be fully trained and experienced and ready to be fully qualified adult workers by 16 or 17 and have a long career with a vastly higher lifetime income than the current system which encourages then to not start that career until they have a college degree of worthless information at keeps them out of the workforce until they are 22. That's eight years of making money traded in and four years of losing money. That's huge.
I think we should be teaching social interaction in school a lot more as well. That benefits you in basically every field (and in life) unless you're coding in a room alone. I see adults every day that have no social skills.
Yes, the current school system actively teaches the worst interactions. Paul Graham has a great essay on it in "Hackers and Painters" where he talks about how the school system treats students akin to criminals. They are detained in a thirteen year sentence for something that they did not do and thrown into a social system with guards that often abuse them or don't care for them and fellow inmates with no adult social skills and it becomes Lord of the Flies. Kids don't learn how to behave as adults, they learn how to behave as inmates.
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad and true
It's very true. And now the guards are armed and the safety is terrible (not because the guards are armed.) School is a scary place.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Education is not universal. Parents of kids in public school are often passionate about the school and its budget. However, only parents of academically gifted children tend to be really passionate about the educational value. Parents of average kids want sports, music, arts, safety (everyone wants that), extra curricular stuff, community building and all kinds of non-academic things because their kids are not going to benefit from those good teachers and high end classes - bottom line, most people are average, welcome to math. And the parents of struggling students care about special needs programs. Very poor families focus on food programs and job skills.
this is why we should have focused schools. IE vocations schools, Art schools, Dance etc..
Going to the county Career Center for business was the best decision I made, in the limited options available at that level in the US. When I got started in IT, I already had a background in things like Accounting and Business Management. I don't know nearly enough in any of those secondary fields to be of use to a business doing just that, but it makes IT a lot easier.
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@travisdh1 said:
@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Education is not universal. Parents of kids in public school are often passionate about the school and its budget. However, only parents of academically gifted children tend to be really passionate about the educational value. Parents of average kids want sports, music, arts, safety (everyone wants that), extra curricular stuff, community building and all kinds of non-academic things because their kids are not going to benefit from those good teachers and high end classes - bottom line, most people are average, welcome to math. And the parents of struggling students care about special needs programs. Very poor families focus on food programs and job skills.
this is why we should have focused schools. IE vocations schools, Art schools, Dance etc..
Going to the county Career Center for business was the best decision I made, in the limited options available at that level in the US. When I got started in IT, I already had a background in things like Accounting and Business Management. I don't know nearly enough in any of those secondary fields to be of use to a business doing just that, but it makes IT a lot easier.
We didn't have that, but I gained the business side by being a manager in a lot of businesses in different fields.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Education is not universal. Parents of kids in public school are often passionate about the school and its budget. However, only parents of academically gifted children tend to be really passionate about the educational value. Parents of average kids want sports, music, arts, safety (everyone wants that), extra curricular stuff, community building and all kinds of non-academic things because their kids are not going to benefit from those good teachers and high end classes - bottom line, most people are average, welcome to math. And the parents of struggling students care about special needs programs. Very poor families focus on food programs and job skills.
this is why we should have focused schools. IE vocations schools, Art schools, Dance etc..
Problem with that is what would any of us have done? I would have likely done a vocational school but was a musician. I would have been totally unable to choose and likely would have done something terrible.
I would have continued to do religious studies... not because I am or was religious but because I thought the mythology was interesting.
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I was a business major so would have likely done more of that. Business major in high school meant I had like a business law class, accounting and business computer usage (keyboarding it was just keyboarding) and computer math (ooo I learned to make a flower in dos). None of which were actually helpful in real life.
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@coliver said:
Is there evidence that a private school education is better then a public one? Everything I've read, although not much, has pointed to it being the same or worse.
The school I attended vs. the shitty, redneck soaked public schools where I lived? No f[moderated]ing contest. Like I said, my mom worked for the public schools and knew they were shite. YMMV, but it's likely any public school is far less concerned with providing a good education than a private, college preparatory school. Where I went had a 100% acceptance rate into college, including a substantial percentage of pre law and pre med students. The year I graduated, valedictorian was decided by 6 or 7 decimal places (as in 99.99999x%). Basically everyone took AP classes and were exempt from many freshman level 101 courses in college. I placed into junior (300 level) spanish my freshman year of college.
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@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
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@RojoLoco said:
@coliver said:
Is there evidence that a private school education is better then a public one? Everything I've read, although not much, has pointed to it being the same or worse.
The school I attended vs. the shitty, redneck soaked public schools where I lived? No f[moderated]ing contest. Like I said, my mom worked for the public schools and knew they were shite. YMMV, but it's likely any public school is far less concerned with providing a good education than a private, college preparatory school. Where I went had a 100% acceptance rate into college, including a substantial percentage of pre law and pre med students. The year I graduated, valedictorian was decided by 6 or 7 decimal places (as in 99.99999x%). Basically everyone took AP classes and were exempt from many freshman level 101 courses in college. I placed into junior (300 level) spanish my freshman year of college.
My school was ranked third in the state (and NY was second in the nation). Our education for the public school was outstanding.
And we sent something like six to college.
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@travisdh1 said:
@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
We had a local school that used a fake 5.0 scale so that they would have like everyone graduate with crazy grades. It shows how uneducated the teachers were that they didn't notice that 120% wasn't a possible grade.
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@scottalanmiller Just remember, "best school in GA" is still the "shiniest turd" award. And our school wasn't even necessarily the best....
As far as college acceptance, I was told my senior year that they would forge my signature on an application to GA Southern (any butt-f@cking retard can get in there if you live in GA), so they could keep that 100% rate.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
We had a local school that used a fake 5.0 scale so that they would have like everyone graduate with crazy grades. It shows how uneducated the teachers were that they didn't notice that 120% wasn't a possible grade.
Hey, I could've maintained a 4.5 GPA in high school!
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@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
We had a local school that used a fake 5.0 scale so that they would have like everyone graduate with crazy grades. It shows how uneducated the teachers were that they didn't notice that 120% wasn't a possible grade.
Hey, I could've maintained a 4.5 GPA in high school!
I had friends who did... and BRAGGED about it. Like...seriously? But it works, it got them into Ivy League schools based on a falsified grade.
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@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
We had a local school that used a fake 5.0 scale so that they would have like everyone graduate with crazy grades. It shows how uneducated the teachers were that they didn't notice that 120% wasn't a possible grade.
Hey, I could've maintained a 4.5 GPA in high school!
We had many students with legit 4+ GPAs (AP classes count as a 5 if you get an A). If those 5s weren't based on getting good grades in an AP class, then they are worthless.
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@RojoLoco said:
@scottalanmiller Just remember, "best school in GA" is still the "shiniest turd" award. And our school wasn't even necessarily the best....
As far as college acceptance, I was told my senior year that they would forge my signature on an application to GA Southern (any butt-f@cking retard can get in there if you live in GA), so they could keep that 100% rate.
Since NY colleges accept everyone (to ensure high schools don't hold people back) acceptance rates were never stated up north. Everyone who wants college goes to college, its a meaningless thing to say. There isn't even any acceptance process to some SUNY school, you just fill out the form and go.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
And for many, I think just working makes more sense. How many people who, for example, work at the front desk of a hotel as an adult (I did this, I think it's a decent job) would have benefited by starting in that career or one related to it at 14 and getting experience and money when they were younger and contributing to a skill that they could use later in life. They could be fully trained and experienced and ready to be fully qualified adult workers by 16 or 17 and have a long career with a vastly higher lifetime income than the current system which encourages then to not start that career until they have a college degree of worthless information at keeps them out of the workforce until they are 22. That's eight years of making money traded in and four years of losing money. That's huge.
I think we should be teaching social interaction in school a lot more as well. That benefits you in basically every field (and in life) unless you're coding in a room alone. I see adults every day that have no social skills.
Yes, the current school system actively teaches the worst interactions. Paul Graham has a great essay on it in "Hackers and Painters" where he talks about how the school system treats students akin to criminals. They are detained in a thirteen year sentence for something that they did not do and thrown into a social system with guards that often abuse them or don't care for them and fellow inmates with no adult social skills and it becomes Lord of the Flies. Kids don't learn how to behave as adults, they learn how to behave as inmates.
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad and true
It's very true. And now the guards are armed and the safety is terrible (not because the guards are armed.) School is a scary place.
My highschool was just torn down recently... but the year after I graduated, armed guards & metal detectors at the door, and bars on the windows...
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@RojoLoco said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@travisdh1 said:
@RojoLoco Sounds like the school I officially graduated from. Even today an A doesn't start till 95%, and I struggled to maintain a B average. Once I hit college classes were a joke at best in comparison.
We had a local school that used a fake 5.0 scale so that they would have like everyone graduate with crazy grades. It shows how uneducated the teachers were that they didn't notice that 120% wasn't a possible grade.
Hey, I could've maintained a 4.5 GPA in high school!
We had many students with legit 4+ GPAs (AP classes count as a 5 if you get an A). If those 5s weren't based on getting good grades in an AP class, then they are worthless.
AP classes are not legitimately over 4.0. Nothing is. If a school has ANYTHING over a 4.0, they aren't on a 4.0 scale. There is no such thing as a legit 4.1. Just like you can't actually give 110%.
