O365 Fully Installed vs. Online Versions
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@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@JaredBusch said:
Word/Excel online also do not like to save into the SharePoint team site documents folder. Once you open one through there, you can see it in the recent history, but you cannot directly save a new document into it easily.
SharePoint team site documents also have to be xlsx/docx to be opened in their respective online applications from the web interface.
Thank you for the information. Is there a viable way to do what I am trying to do or is this not really feasible yet? I see that they have an ODfB sync client. Zero experience with any of this.
Why bother with the sync client? The locally installed versions will download and upload on the fly directly to ODfB, no reason to sync other than offline access.
I'm asking because I don't know. The locally installed versions would cost us more than our local file server costs us to maintain. We have a very basic file server and around 500 users. At $4.50 per user per month I can't justify it. They won't pay it.
How much offline access to files do you need? Do most of your users work at their desk or do they work at odd hours remotely? How often are people not on the network.
Do you need Office? Does something like LibreOffice work to fill that gap?
I'm not sure if it does. I'm sure LibreCalc's formulas work differently right? That would require me to convert thousands of files, right?
It may, but LibreCalc can open Excel files by default. The expressions can be different but that would take some testing. Is that work going to cost more then the cost of Office?
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@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@JaredBusch said:
Word/Excel online also do not like to save into the SharePoint team site documents folder. Once you open one through there, you can see it in the recent history, but you cannot directly save a new document into it easily.
SharePoint team site documents also have to be xlsx/docx to be opened in their respective online applications from the web interface.
Thank you for the information. Is there a viable way to do what I am trying to do or is this not really feasible yet? I see that they have an ODfB sync client. Zero experience with any of this.
Why bother with the sync client? The locally installed versions will download and upload on the fly directly to ODfB, no reason to sync other than offline access.
I'm asking because I don't know. The locally installed versions would cost us more than our local file server costs us to maintain. We have a very basic file server and around 500 users. At $4.50 per user per month I can't justify it. They won't pay it.
How much offline access to files do you need? Do most of your users work at their desk or do they work at odd hours remotely? How often are people not on the network.
Do you need Office? Does something like LibreOffice work to fill that gap?
I'm not sure if it does. I'm sure LibreCalc's formulas work differently right? That would require me to convert thousands of files, right?
It may, but LibreCalc can open Excel files by default. The expressions can be different but that would take some testing. Is that work going to cost more then the cost of Office?
I would imagine it would. Anyone working on it is being completely unproductive and we are still paying their salary. I'll have to do some testing. If my users can't create formulas themselves I think they're going to be pissed most likely. It seems like in every way O365 isn't worth it.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@JaredBusch said:
Word/Excel online also do not like to save into the SharePoint team site documents folder. Once you open one through there, you can see it in the recent history, but you cannot directly save a new document into it easily.
SharePoint team site documents also have to be xlsx/docx to be opened in their respective online applications from the web interface.
Thank you for the information. Is there a viable way to do what I am trying to do or is this not really feasible yet? I see that they have an ODfB sync client. Zero experience with any of this.
Why bother with the sync client? The locally installed versions will download and upload on the fly directly to ODfB, no reason to sync other than offline access.
I'm asking because I don't know. The locally installed versions would cost us more than our local file server costs us to maintain. We have a very basic file server and around 500 users. At $4.50 per user per month I can't justify it. They won't pay it.
I'm confused. Where did $4.50 come from? 500 users clearly puts you in the E1-E5 line of choices for O365. E1 online apps only is $8/u/m, E3 - locally installed office is $20/u/m.
I'm a non-profit: https://products.office.com/en-us/nonprofit/office-365-nonprofit-plans-and-pricing
Aww.. yes you did mention that earlier.
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So some things to look at - how many files do you have? is it more than 5000? If not, and they are all in the newer xlsx and docx, etc formats, then you can create a SharePoint site, copy them up there, then your online users can access/edit them, and so can your local users.
Like you, I haven't seen an exact list of what features are in the online version versus the locally installed one, but they are substantial when it comes to more advanced features, and as @BRRABill mentioned, some simpler ones like freezing a column/row.
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Why would you want to sync all of the files to all of the end users?
Why sync them at all?Is that your plan for ownCloud? to sync all of the files to every user's desktop/laptop?
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@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@JaredBusch said:
Word/Excel online also do not like to save into the SharePoint team site documents folder. Once you open one through there, you can see it in the recent history, but you cannot directly save a new document into it easily.
SharePoint team site documents also have to be xlsx/docx to be opened in their respective online applications from the web interface.
Thank you for the information. Is there a viable way to do what I am trying to do or is this not really feasible yet? I see that they have an ODfB sync client. Zero experience with any of this.
Why bother with the sync client? The locally installed versions will download and upload on the fly directly to ODfB, no reason to sync other than offline access.
I'm asking because I don't know. The locally installed versions would cost us more than our local file server costs us to maintain. We have a very basic file server and around 500 users. At $4.50 per user per month I can't justify it. They won't pay it.
How much offline access to files do you need? Do most of your users work at their desk or do they work at odd hours remotely? How often are people not on the network.
Do you need Office? Does something like LibreOffice work to fill that gap?
I'm not sure if it does. I'm sure LibreCalc's formulas work differently right? That would require me to convert thousands of files, right?
It may, but LibreCalc can open Excel files by default. The expressions can be different but that would take some testing. Is that work going to cost more then the cost of Office?
I would imagine it would. Anyone working on it is being completely unproductive and we are still paying their salary. I'll have to do some testing. If my users can't create formulas themselves I think they're going to be pissed most likely. It seems like in every way O365 isn't worth it.
Completely unproductive? I doubt that, will they be less productive for a short time while they learn the syntax? Yes, but over time, most likely a very short time, they will learn what they will need of the program. The expressions and formulas are only slightly different between Excel and LibreCalc, and some advanced functions aren't there at all.
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@Dashrender said:
Why would you want to sync all of the files to all of the end users?
Why sync them at all?Is that your plan for ownCloud? to sync all of the files to every user's desktop/laptop?
No. I'm sorry for not articulating this well but let me try here. Currently we have a single point of failure at our main building. 33 other buildings connect to it for terminal services and the file server so if our internet our power go out our entire company goes down. I wanted to move to a cost saving hosted solution (Vultr). O365 seemed to save a ton of money so I was looking at it as an option separate from the file server but I didn't know the difference between the versions--which everyone just clarified for me (exactly what I was looking for). I want to move my fileserver over to Vultr and create an OwnCloud server because it's cost effective. I really wanted to be able to move over to O365 but the more I read responses to this thread the less reasonable I think it is. I'd much rather pay $20/month for a file server that gets the uptime of a data center than pay a good amount of money every few years to maintain a single point of failure. Does this make sense?
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@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@JaredBusch said:
Word/Excel online also do not like to save into the SharePoint team site documents folder. Once you open one through there, you can see it in the recent history, but you cannot directly save a new document into it easily.
SharePoint team site documents also have to be xlsx/docx to be opened in their respective online applications from the web interface.
Thank you for the information. Is there a viable way to do what I am trying to do or is this not really feasible yet? I see that they have an ODfB sync client. Zero experience with any of this.
Why bother with the sync client? The locally installed versions will download and upload on the fly directly to ODfB, no reason to sync other than offline access.
I'm asking because I don't know. The locally installed versions would cost us more than our local file server costs us to maintain. We have a very basic file server and around 500 users. At $4.50 per user per month I can't justify it. They won't pay it.
How much offline access to files do you need? Do most of your users work at their desk or do they work at odd hours remotely? How often are people not on the network.
Do you need Office? Does something like LibreOffice work to fill that gap?
I'm not sure if it does. I'm sure LibreCalc's formulas work differently right? That would require me to convert thousands of files, right?
It may, but LibreCalc can open Excel files by default. The expressions can be different but that would take some testing. Is that work going to cost more then the cost of Office?
I would imagine it would. Anyone working on it is being completely unproductive and we are still paying their salary. I'll have to do some testing. If my users can't create formulas themselves I think they're going to be pissed most likely. It seems like in every way O365 isn't worth it.
Completely unproductive? I doubt that, will they be less productive for a short time while they learn the syntax? Yes, but over time, most likely a very short time, they will learn what they will need of the program. The expressions and formulas are only slightly different between Excel and LibreCalc, and some advanced functions aren't there at all.
There is no way my users would be willing to learn. I know I know.
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@wirestyle22 said:
Does this make sense?
I see what you are saying - but I don't see how you are getting rid of single points of failure, at least not entirely - but then you haven't laid out the entire plan.
You mentioned a Terminal Server - are you planning on moving that?
I think the most cost effective move for you might to be go colo. Move all of your servers into a real DC. They will cover power and internet connectivity - things that I assume are your biggest fears. then everything else can stay exactly as it is, or at least nearly so - the people in your location would need to start acting like those 33 other locations and now be TSing into the colo
This is only one of many options.
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Something to keep in mind here - you will NOT be saying any money with most if not all of these options - at least not money that management will really understand (at least those I've dealt with).
For example, you need to take into account heating/cooling/power/UPSs/resilient internet connections/etc etc etc... these costs all add up. There are sorta free to you today with your ownsite things - management doesn't see a line item for heating/cooling DC = $x/month they just know the whole building HVAC costs.
You're also gaining major stability points moving to a DC or hosted over what you have today. But again, this is something that isn't tangible to them - why? Because SMB hardware is actually pretty damned reliable today. That and you do your job of maintaining things, so they (management) and users rarely see an issue that is from the IT closet. So while your uptime might go from 99.9 to 99.99 or even 99.999 they don't see it or probably care.
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@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
Does this make sense?
I see what you are saying - but I don't see how you are getting rid of single points of failure, at least not entirely - but then you haven't laid out the entire plan.
You mentioned a Terminal Server - are you planning on moving that?
I think the most cost effective move for you might to be go colo. Move all of your servers into a real DC. They will cover power and internet connectivity - things that I assume are your biggest fears. then everything else can stay exactly as it is, or at least nearly so - the people in your location would need to start acting like those 33 other locations and now be TSing into the colo
This is only one of many options.
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes but it's a one step at a time kind of thing for me right now.
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@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
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Oh by the way, love the conversation this morning!
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@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
ZeroTier has already been approved. That's another project I'm working on
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@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
O360 will never be attractive to my directors with those price points, even at non-profit discounts. They don't think in terms of saved money supplementing other purchases.
Have you had a good experience with Azure? I've heard nothing but bad things.
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@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
O360 will never be attractive to my directors with those price points, even at non-profit discounts. They don't think in terms of saved money supplementing other purchases.
You're losing me - I thought it was free for most of your users? What type of MS Office licenses do you have now? Is there any reason you can't keep using what you have today? and move email to O365?
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@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
O360 will never be attractive to my directors with those price points, even at non-profit discounts. They don't think in terms of saved money supplementing other purchases.
You're losing me - I thought it was free for most of your users? What type of MS Office licenses do you have now? Is there any reason you can't keep using what you have today? and move email to O365?
My thought process: If I can't use O365 to access local files then it's useless for me regardless of the savings especially considering the limitations.
I suppose moving to O365 just for e-mail would alleviate the $8 (I think) fee that we pay for it from Techsoup. Is that what you mean?
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@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
O360 will never be attractive to my directors with those price points, even at non-profit discounts. They don't think in terms of saved money supplementing other purchases.
Have you had a good experience with Azure? I've heard nothing but bad things.
Azure AD and Office 365 work pretty flawlessly from what I can tell. Azure the cloud vendor has some issues though.
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@coliver said:
@wirestyle22 said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@wirestyle22 said:
With the OwnCloud server hosted by Vultr my users would at least have access to the file server, which for what we do is essentially 99% of their job. Everything else is web based now. I think just my domain controller would be a great start as far as a datacenter goes.
Sure, so it sounds like LANless design would be good for you. ownCloud for files (non synced unless require offline access) locally install MS Office - keep current version.
Do you need AD? maybe, maybe not. If yes, can you upgrade everyone to Windows 10, and use Azure AD? Do you need things like GPO? If yes, well, you're going to have spend some money or convert to Linux AD. On the money side, you'll have to maintain a Windows server with some type of connection, site to site VPNs, or ZeroTier, etc, or purchase a MDM solution that handles PCs as well as mobile devices.
Or look into Azure AD. You can natively authenticate to it via Windows 10 now. This could help alleviate some costs and makes Office365 more attractive.
O360 will never be attractive to my directors with those price points, even at non-profit discounts. They don't think in terms of saved money supplementing other purchases.
Have you had a good experience with Azure? I've heard nothing but bad things.
Azure AD and Office 365 work pretty flawlessly from what I can tell. Azure the cloud vendor has some issues though.
Maybe that is what I'm thinking of. Does Azure AD allow me to access local files using O365 though?
