Windows 10 Auto Update
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@BRRABill said:
But trying to react to a dialog box, expecting it to be the same as all the other dialog boxes you've ever seen, is certainly not out of the question
But if he did that, wouldn't clicking the X close it? It's that he reacted to it as a special case that caused the issue, right?
Granted, if that is the message that he got, that's a pretty crappy one. But on the other hand, if he has decided that he wants to be the IT person, it's his own fault for hiring an IT person who is confused by dialogues, right? Is he failing at hiring himself or not knowing the job he hired himself for or both
Only semi-tongue in cheek. The idea of not keeping Windows up to date is a power user one for home and an IT one for the office. So we have to decide what role he is playing and what his responsibility is. Is he running as the local admin? He's decided to take on the role of the admin... it's his responsibility to understand the ramifications of his actions and to stay up to date on how the system must be configured and what it will do. He doesn't get a free pass to not have IT expertise, no one does. He's always free to not use computers or to hire skilled people or to educate himself the same that all of us have to do. He's also free to choose to skip all that and hope for the best, and often that works (this is what "average" people do.) And when they do, they take chances.
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@BRRABill said:
@Dashrender said:
Yep. He specifically said the only way to cancel it is to click the Red X. Some people will do that, but most won't. They will think they have no choice and choice one of the buttons.
This is yet another example of where I don;t think people have to know there is a special way to figure this out that is different than everything else they are used to doing.
Now, @scottalanmiller, if you are saying that if this had said "We are going to come and shoot you. Shoot you dead." with the same options, that they might have just stopped there and asked someone. Well, I guess I could understand that.
But trying to react to a dialog box, expecting it to be the same as all the other dialog boxes you've ever seen, is certainly not out of the question
The thing is that people are doing it wrong - And this is something I agree with Scott on. They are making excuses instead of learning their tech.
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@Dashrender said:
The thing is that people are doing it wrong - And this is something I agree with Scott on. They are making excuses instead of learning their tech.
And I totally believe that it is their prerogative if they want to learn the tech or not, or to hire an expert or not. But in no case do they get special pity, it's up to them to determine what they think things are worth, invest properly and live with the consequences of their decisions just like the rest of us have to.
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The sad fact is that home users often see no value in an IT person. They know that when something with their plumbing goes bad they either have to learn how to fix it themselves, or pay a plumber - but for whatever reason, they don't see their computer the same way.
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@Dashrender said:
The sad fact is that home users often see no value in an IT person. They know that when something with their plumbing goes bad they either have to learn how to fix it themselves, or pay a plumber - but for whatever reason, they don't see their computer the same way.
In my mind, it's the difference between using a toilet, and fixing/installing one.
99% of the time, the toilet just works.
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@Dashrender said:
The sad fact is that home users often see no value in an IT person. They know that when something with their plumbing goes bad they either have to learn how to fix it themselves, or pay a plumber - but for whatever reason, they don't see their computer the same way.
But everyone knows the Bill Cosby scenario (no, not that one) about how people doing their own plumbing cause more damage than they fix and they might even damage the house when it floods. Same with computers.
I don't do my own plumbing short of replacing a faucet because I know that I suck and will likely do more harm than good. So in the same way that I hold myself accountable with plumbing, I hold other people accountable with their computers.
If people do their own plumbing and flood the house, we laugh. If they get a virus because they were being equally reckless we act like it isn't their fault.
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@BRRABill said:
@Dashrender said:
The sad fact is that home users often see no value in an IT person. They know that when something with their plumbing goes bad they either have to learn how to fix it themselves, or pay a plumber - but for whatever reason, they don't see their computer the same way.
In my mind, it's the difference between using a toilet, and fixing/installing one.
99% of the time, the toilet just works.
BUt when it doesn't, I call a plumber.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
99% of the time, the toilet just works.
BUt when it doesn't, I call a plumber.
If users only needed to call a IT professional on 1% of their usage issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
THAT is the problem.
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@BRRABill said:
If users only needed to call a IT professional on 1% of their usage issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
THAT is the problem.
Where do you get more than 1%? My family that doesn't know computers at all, even when they use Windows (which I consider for power users) needs help less than 1% of the time other than "at install." Once set up correctly, what do they keep needing?
I see it just like a toilet. Get it installed right, call someone when it clogs or leaks or you break it with a wine bottle. Other than that, it lasts for generations without service.
Every problem that you mention seems to be people refusing to get the toilet installed then not getting it fixed when it leaks and of course it seems hard to maintain. But they made it that way.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I see it just like a toilet. Get it installed right, call someone when it clogs or leaks or you break it with a wine bottle. Other than that, it lasts for generations without service.
You know you want to tell that story or you wouldn't have included this tidbit.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
If users only needed to call a IT professional on 1% of their usage issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
THAT is the problem.
Where do you get more than 1%? My family that doesn't know computers at all, even when they use Windows (which I consider for power users) needs help less than 1% of the time other than "at install." Once set up correctly, what do they keep needing?
I see it just like a toilet. Get it installed right, call someone when it clogs or leaks or you break it with a wine bottle. Other than that, it lasts for generations without service.
Every problem that you mention seems to be people refusing to get the toilet installed then not getting it fixed when it leaks and of course it seems hard to maintain. But they made it that way.
The difference there for your family is you do the install for free (or whomever is doing the install - is probably free).
If computers came with a required 2 hours of onsite setup, then things would also be different. Of course this would require at minimum another $150 to the average cost, and allowing someone access to your home.
of course you allow someone access to your home when you order cable, so that shouldn't be that bad. But scheduling could make it near impossible.
So instead of requiring onsite setup by a pro - why does the OS do this for you? As I mentioned above... Apple computers do.
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@Dashrender said:
The difference there for your family is you do the install for free (or whomever is doing the install - is probably free).
Heck no, I tell them to stop using Windows and needing me. I tell them all to move to Chromebooks because helping family is a horrible idea for everyone.
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@Dashrender said:
If computers came with a required 2 hours of onsite setup, then things would also be different. Of course this would require at minimum another $150 to the average cost, and allowing someone access to your home.
Toilets don't require that. Yet people don't question needing a plumber to install it. Requiring it isn't the answer.
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@Dashrender said:
So instead of requiring onsite setup by a pro - why does the OS do this for you? As I mentioned above... Apple computers do.
They also have backups and cloud services built in, don't forget.
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@Dashrender said:
So instead of requiring onsite setup by a pro - why does the OS do this for you? As I mentioned above... Apple computers do.
So does Linux and ChromeOS. Bottom line, Windows is for power users and if you choose a Power User platform but are not a power user or can't be bothered to get the assistance that you need it's your own fault. The options for systems that require less effort and knowledge are there, at some point the end user must be accountable for their decisions.
We are acting like the end users are four year olds or hamsters here or something and giving them no dignity or credit.
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@scottalanmiller said:
We are acting like the end users are four year olds or hamsters here or something and giving them no dignity or credit.
I honestly don't think you've met enough home users in the wild.
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No but I have had several hamsters.
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@scottalanmiller said:
No but I have had several hamsters.
Considering they lived with you, I bet they did backups on their little hamster computers.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
No but I have had several hamsters.
Considering they lived with you, I bet they did backups on their little hamster computers.
Don't you even - we had a thread about that and NTG needs a lot of hamsters to get a RAIHAM10 array up
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Sadly this thing doesn't even require admin rights for the upgrade anymore. It assumes if you allow users to install updates you want to allow them to install upgrades
