Apple is fighting the FBI
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OK - So Steve Gibson on Security Now! did a break down of the technology in place around this particular device (and maybe all current iDevices as well).
Each device sends it's unique ID along with a nonce. Apple encrypts those along with the update package using apples private certificate (something we assume is either burned into the device or can only come from a trusted source on the internet for the device to very with the public portion of the cert). The device will then install the update.
The method prevents a package created by the update servers (or a MITM) to present a bad package to the device for installation.
So it's Steve's position that this use of the deployment method that prevents this from being a global problem for these devices.
I'd argue that as long as Apple controls it's certificate that the deployment method would prevent this from being a problem.
But the sure fact that the software exists would simply put Apple right back where they were before the current situation where Apple can't get into the phones.
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
This is why I think Apple should stand strong and not make this software.
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@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Who says they haven't..?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Places like China could demand that only phones with that version of the software are allowed to be sold inside it's borders. And it could demand it retroactively. Apple would only need to publish this new version to their update servers and when the devices go to get an update, they'll just get this new weaker version.
.But they can demand that already.
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because they haven't thought of it? Or that Apple has already said either you can make our phones, or earn nothing from us.
One of the other...
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@Dashrender said:
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because Foxconn is the single largest contributor to the Chinese economy and Apple has the means and the will to move all production from China to Taiwan overnight. Don't think that Apple wouldn't hold the country over a barrel and bring their economy to its knees. They'd sweep other manufacturers along with them, rebuild Foxconn's resources and shut down handheld consumer device manufacturing in China. Google has been inching that way as it is, together they'd make the move happen.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
That's true, I kinda wonder why they haven't?
Because Foxconn is the single largest contributor to the Chinese economy and Apple has the means and the will to move all production from China to Taiwan overnight. Don't think that Apple wouldn't hold the country over a barrel and bring their economy to its knees. They'd sweep other manufacturers along with them, rebuild Foxconn's resources and shut down handheld consumer device manufacturing in China. Google has been inching that way as it is, together they'd make the move happen.
Exactly...
China says Apple, do this, Apple says China, Economy goodbye.
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Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
As for Apple - now that I do believe.
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@Dashrender said:
Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
You don't think that those huge factories in Dallas for making phones in the US aren't an attempt to be free of Chinese control? What do you think they are, empty shells just pretending to make phones?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Google has been inching away from China? Basically threatening them that if China doesn't do it the Google way, that they will leave? I'd love to believe that.
You don't think that those huge factories in Dallas for making phones in the US aren't an attempt to be free of Chinese control? What do you think they are, empty shells just pretending to make phones?
I know not of what you speak.
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@Dashrender said:
I know not of what you speak.
Three years ago Google started moving phone production from China to Fort Worth. They built the largest factories in North Texas and hired thousands to start making Motorola phones there instead of in China. It was right at the same time that Apple started making US factories - it's a hedge strategy to make sure that China knows that they have the skills in the US to make phones and computers. For about a decade and a half, the US actually lose the skills necessary to make them, so China actually had us over a barrel. Those two went crazy investing in American manufacturing systems to make sure that while the majority kept being made in China, that if push came to shove, the US could do it (with time to ramp up.) Apple makes some high end computers in the US, Google makes their top end phone here.
When I moved out of Dallas it was the big place hiring left and right. So many jobs moved into the area.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I know not of what you speak.
Three years ago Google started moving phone production from China to Fort Worth. They built the largest factories in North Texas and hired thousands to start making Motorola phones there instead of in China. It was right at the same time that Apple started making US factories - it's a hedge strategy to make sure that China knows that they have the skills in the US to make phones and computers. For about a decade and a half, the US actually lose the skills necessary to make them, so China actually had us over a barrel. Those two went crazy investing in American manufacturing systems to make sure that while the majority kept being made in China, that if push came to shove, the US could do it (with time to ramp up.) Apple makes some high end computers in the US, Google makes their top end phone here.
When I moved out of Dallas it was the big place hiring left and right. So many jobs moved into the area.
Awesome!!
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
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@Dashrender said:
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
Vendor lockin (where vendor = country.) Just simple, normal business practices.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
What were those companies afraid of? were they really concerned with human rights violations? or less so, privacy rights?
Vendor lockin (where vendor = country.) Just simple, normal business practices.
oh, well that's not really related to the issue at hand then. But does play in their favor in the current issue.
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@Dashrender said:
oh, well that's not really related to the issue at hand then. But does play in their favor in the current issue.
I thought that was the very issue at hand. I'm not even clear how you think it isn't exactly what was discussed.
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I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
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@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
You pretty much just laid it out. Smart phone manufacturing is a huge part of the Chinese economy. If the Chinese government said "we want a backdoor", Apple or Google would just have to threaten to pack up and leave to get them to back down on that demand. Especially since they have shown they can be manufactured in other locations.
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@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
LOL. Yup, one is the power to stop the other.
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Encrypt everything, all the bloody things. We stand to benefit as a free and open society; opposite being true for those who rule by force.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I thought the issue at hand was China or other governments demanding vendors install weak security on devices being sold in their country.
What does that have to do a business making sure a country knows that that business can and will move if the country gets pissy?
I suppose after writing that I can see how they are related.
LOL. Yup, one is the power to stop the other.
Now this is of course assuming Apple cares about people's privacy in China more than they care about selling phones in china.
