EATON AMA
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@mdecamp said:
@coliver said:
@mdecamp said:
@gjacobse said:
Using a UPS is a short term option. In some cases services need to be maintained longer -
Are there best practices for deploying a UPS with a generator?
When designing with a backup solution, compatibility between a UPS and Generator is usually one of the biggest issues. It can be complex and confusing.
If the generator isn't sized large enough, it may not be able to hold voltage and frequency within input tolerances when the UPS comes online. The UPS will view the generator as an unstable power source and never come off of battery. The UPS will have a set input voltage and frequency window; if you go outside the window the UPS will go on battery. You can get into a vicious cycle of going on and off of battery until your UPS crashes and your IT load are dropped.
Several reasons why the generator would be an issue:
• The generator is like a car engine. As it maintains RPMs, it maintains frequency. When the UPS transfers from battery to generator power, the engine may slow down a bit. You can compare this to driving a stick shift while stopped at a red light headed uphill. When you dump the clutch, if you aren't giving it enough gas (or if you are driving a pinto) the RPMs are going to drop down.
• Just like in the automotive world, the bigger the engine (generator here) the more it can handle the dumping of the clutch as the UPS comes off of battery. Bigger (aside from your budget number) is better
• Natural Gas is usually the least combustible fuel out there, and generators that run off of NG are slow to respond and may need to be sized larger than propane counterparts. Diesel is best, but usually predominant in the world of 50kW and larger, but it may present a lot more budget and maintenance issues if you don't have a maintenance program or run them weekly, etc.
• When looking at smaller generators (30kW and below) look at the governor. Electronic governors are quick to respond, mechanical governors are not and may add headaches.
The features of the UPS can also impact you configuration. Most single phase UPS products (20kVA and below) will come back online all at once. Larger three phase UPS products will have "current walk-in" and will slowly transition from battery anywhere from 5-60 seconds. As for sizing solutions with generators under 30kVA for single phase UPS applications, I usually lean on the err of caution being a manufacturer. We recommend the same if you are responsible as the decision maker.
• Generator should be sized 2 times the total load (UPS, A/C, an everything else) for NG and mechanical governor
• 1.5 times the load will work if you have a new generator, Propane or Diesel and an electronic governor.
• Any mix from the above puts you somewhere in the middle of 1.5 to 2 times.This was an amazing explanation and answered a few of my questions. Thank you.
Full disclosure is that I stole this post from @windso
What about adding a conditioner to the mix? Is there an advantage? I would think that smoothing out the peaks/troughs would make the UPS much happier. Am I looking at it correctly, or is there another piece that makes this unnecessary?
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@gjacobse eaton.com/abm has more info if you're interested
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@gbeyhaut said:
@JaredBusch prices on the web!! NEVER! www.cdw.com should have some prices. To be honest we sell these primarily through electrical distributors like Wesco and Rexel.
But I clicked through the whole calculator and no price was given. only an contact me...
I know your website elsewhere always seems to have pricing.
But no pricing on the generator page either.. -
What are some of the newer and future advances in power management that we might not be aware of yet? Any cool new technologies we should learn about?
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@JaredBusch Agreed, MSRP would be nice along with getting a quote. I'll be sure to pass your feedback along. We're always updating tools! Continued work in progress.
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So how much is the MSRP on the 11kw home unit? not counting installation?
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Coffee break @ Eaton offices?
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@JaredBusch Around $3,500-$4,000, not including the automatic transfer switch.
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@JColeKen said:
@JaredBusch Around $3,500-$4,000, not including the automatic transfer switch.
For 11kW?? Wow. I would have expected a bit more for that.
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@art_of_shred said:
Coffee break @ Eaton offices?
I'm more curious as to how they are as a group handling questions. Huddled in a conference room?
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@art_of_shred said:
@JColeKen said:
@JaredBusch Around $3,500-$4,000, not including the automatic transfer switch.
For 11kW?? Wow. I would have expected a bit more for that.
Maybe installation is an extra $7,723.69 ?
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@BRRABill said:
@art_of_shred said:
Coffee break @ Eaton offices?
I'm more curious as to how they are as a group handling questions. Huddled in a conference room?
"Who is this Jared guy, and how much should we tell him?"
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@ciwoodhouse said:
@BRRABill Here's the gist:
• You can purchase up to three times the VA you are trading in! The new Eaton unit can be a smaller VA rating than the old UPS too.
• Your discount is for the purchase of the new Eaton UPS only and not the old UPS traded in
• Return shipping labels will be provided to you to send the old UPS(s) back for disposal – free of chargeIt is a set discount amount, like 10% or whatever?
For me, a lot of the allure of that program is just getting rid of the old UPSes in an environmentally friendly way.
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@dafyre said:
@art_of_shred said:
@JColeKen said:
@JaredBusch Around $3,500-$4,000, not including the automatic transfer switch.
For 11kW?? Wow. I would have expected a bit more for that.
Maybe installation is an extra $7,723.69 ?
kW not K.
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@JColeKen said:
@JaredBusch Around $3,500-$4,000, not including the automatic transfer switch.
Oh... man that is inexpensive... might need to look at that in the near future. I've learned so much from this AMA.
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@dafyre Our offering is a liquid propane or natural gas generator, so no diesel. The electrical wiring, installation, and the ATS would be additional costs.
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Explain it like I am 5. How do you correctly calculate the power usage of a 3-phase PDU? I have been wrestling with this and would really love a simple calculator or spreadsheet or something.
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@art_of_shred I think everyone just left the techy questions to @JColeKen to fend for himself
Don't eat him alive!
