NetDrive - Any One Used It?
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
Use something like Sharepoint or Alfresco. Use the web interface instead of attaching it to WebDav (which is slightly safer then CIFS). Use actual programs (MS Office comes to mind) to open files instead of something like file explorer. These programs can directly access both Sharepoint and Alfresco without having to go through a mount. Even Confluence has an Office plugin that will allow it to directly access files stored on Confluence.
The problem I have with this method for opening files is searching for files. Sometimes you just don't remember if a file is a Word doc or an Excel sheet. If you're searching with Word, you'll never see the Excel sheets, etc.
I understand the safety gained, but damn you do give up a lot.
Do you give up a lot? You're thinking about searching in the context with file explorer... what about searching via a tagged infrastructure on a document management system? That would be 1000x easier then trying to use the built in windows search.
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@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
No question that this will take a lot of time, money, and energy to train end users on how to use these systems properly but in the long run they will be much better off. Not only is it marginally safer from a security and malware perspective but it will also be easier to use once people get used to it. Searching a document management system is so much easier to do then searching a file share. Especially if people are using tags to their full extent.
I wonder how much training it will really take. A lot of these systems that exist today are so transparent that often people do not even really realize.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
No question that this will take a lot of time, money, and energy to train end users on how to use these systems properly but in the long run they will be much better off. Not only is it marginally safer from a security and malware perspective but it will also be easier to use once people get used to it. Searching a document management system is so much easier to do then searching a file share. Especially if people are using tags to their full extent.
I wonder how much training it will really take. A lot of these systems that exist today are so transparent that often people do not even really realize.
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
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@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
How do you mean? Like the Gallery type apps on phones?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
This is where application-aware storage is key. Like how Word talks to ODfB transparently. No need to install ODfB or have it talk to the OS. The OS is a point of risk here. Shared risk across applications. Remove that and things like Cryptolocker have little to nothing to attack. Storage aware applications are the future, IMHO, both because of security but moreso because of features and functionality. It is just a better, more advanced way to work with computers.
Using files like we have been is the "IT way forced on end users." It is not at all how end users would want or design storage. It was done because it was easy for the programmers and IT to think of files since we don't use applications. But end users only use applications, they shouldn't need files!
Just thought if Owncloud has an option to integrate with Office, and found this https://forum.owncloud.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10820
And something for dropbox/google drive as well http://getdigitize.com/office-2013-how-to-add-dropbox-and-google-drive-as-a-cloud-service/
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
How do you mean? Like the Gallery type apps on phones?
Like pretty much any app. What app on your phone uses files? Pretty much everything is handled in the apps.
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@Ambarishrh said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
This is where application-aware storage is key. Like how Word talks to ODfB transparently. No need to install ODfB or have it talk to the OS. The OS is a point of risk here. Shared risk across applications. Remove that and things like Cryptolocker have little to nothing to attack. Storage aware applications are the future, IMHO, both because of security but moreso because of features and functionality. It is just a better, more advanced way to work with computers.
Using files like we have been is the "IT way forced on end users." It is not at all how end users would want or design storage. It was done because it was easy for the programmers and IT to think of files since we don't use applications. But end users only use applications, they shouldn't need files!
Just thought if Owncloud has an option to integrate with Office, and found this https://forum.owncloud.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10820
And something for dropbox/google drive as well http://getdigitize.com/office-2013-how-to-add-dropbox-and-google-drive-as-a-cloud-service/
That's awesome. Good to know!!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
How do you mean? Like the Gallery type apps on phones?
Like pretty much any app. What app on your phone uses files? Pretty much everything is handled in the apps.
True. But at the base level, it all comes back to files.
For instance, my Sketchbook app where I attempt to draw random stuff... When I save it... It saves it as a file on my phone somewhere. When I come back to it later, Sketchbook handles that and shows me where the files are (and does not let me change the location of the files).That is fine though. I know when I open Sketchbook, my drawings are there. As far as an End-User is concerned, that is all they care about. As an IT guy, I think about the fact that the files are local to the device though. If I drop my phone in the ocean, my files are gone... this is why us IT guys like things like ACD, ownCloud, etc...
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Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
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I am using it as a File Store right now. Anything critical enough for me to keep backed up gets tossed up into ACD.
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@garak0410 said:
Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
I use that and like it a lot.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@garak0410 said:
Convinced not to use it...I am kind of digging Amazon's Cloud Storage, since I got it free and unlimited for a year...not as integrated as I would like but also not a pain to use...
I use that and like it a lot.
It is well worth the $60 a year.
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@dafyre Especially if you have a Fire TV!
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@scottalanmiller said:
@dafyre Especially if you have a Fire TV!
Or a VPS host that is capable of running Plex!
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
Use something like Sharepoint or Alfresco. Use the web interface instead of attaching it to WebDav (which is slightly safer then CIFS). Use actual programs (MS Office comes to mind) to open files instead of something like file explorer. These programs can directly access both Sharepoint and Alfresco without having to go through a mount. Even Confluence has an Office plugin that will allow it to directly access files stored on Confluence.
The problem I have with this method for opening files is searching for files. Sometimes you just don't remember if a file is a Word doc or an Excel sheet. If you're searching with Word, you'll never see the Excel sheets, etc.
I understand the safety gained, but damn you do give up a lot.
Do you give up a lot? You're thinking about searching in the context with file explorer... what about searching via a tagged infrastructure on a document management system? That would be 1000x easier then trying to use the built in windows search.
I agree, that a document manager would be easier, with tag. You were specifically talking about using the apps to find the documents in question.
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@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@coliver said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Now that that is such a huge vulnerability, it's going to take time to change what is there and even longer for people to start thinking in those terms. The ship is turning, but it will take time. Lots of time.
(not arguing... just thinking out loud)... What are the alternatives? Using a Sync software a la ownCloud, et al? Still the same problem -- at least with ownCloud, you get File Versioning.
You could use ownCloud, et al, by just manually uploading things to the website... but would end-users actually do that?
For us IT folks, we know better, and would upload our Important Stuff (tm) to our online storage provider of choice...
Use something like Sharepoint or Alfresco. Use the web interface instead of attaching it to WebDav (which is slightly safer then CIFS). Use actual programs (MS Office comes to mind) to open files instead of something like file explorer. These programs can directly access both Sharepoint and Alfresco without having to go through a mount. Even Confluence has an Office plugin that will allow it to directly access files stored on Confluence.
The problem I have with this method for opening files is searching for files. Sometimes you just don't remember if a file is a Word doc or an Excel sheet. If you're searching with Word, you'll never see the Excel sheets, etc.
I understand the safety gained, but damn you do give up a lot.
Do you give up a lot? You're thinking about searching in the context with file explorer... what about searching via a tagged infrastructure on a document management system? That would be 1000x easier then trying to use the built in windows search.
I agree, that a document manager would be easier, with tag. You were specifically talking about using the apps to find the documents in question.
The apps can do all of that stuff too. No reason that meta data would not carry through.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
Did I say that? Where? I think that that is an "in between" step. I'm talking about not using that at all, use the apps. If you need to manage documents, it's too complicated.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
It depends on how heavily network mounts and shared drives are utilized. I think you'd be surprised at how change adverse a lot of end users can be even for technologies that I see as beneficial to everyone.
But I think most users are seeing this already and it is so transparent that they do not even realize. Like on phones.
I don't consider that the same.
The system you're talking about has been there since day one on the iPhone, and nearly so on Android. But on Windows instead of looking for files in Explorer or searching through the programs (I'd say my users are 50/50), now you're telling them to use this brand new thing called document manager (sharepoint/owndrive/etc).
Did I say that? Where? I think that that is an "in between" step. I'm talking about not using that at all, use the apps. If you need to manage documents, it's too complicated.
You didn't say use document manager that was Coliver when he was calling be out on giving up. But he was responding to my retort about using only the apps to find files you want/need to work on. Sure the other day you said the user has to take responsibility at some point, at the same time I say we as admins have to find ways to ensure they can find their files.
I think using apps is about the worst way to manage that, but at the same time I understand why it can be seen as better.
Perhaps the best option is the pure document management with tags setup. The user searches for what they want in the document management system, click and it launches the needed application.
We definitely should be able to say the user is a lot of responsibility here, but in the end that rarely works out, especially when the boss was SURE her file was a Word doc only for you to find that it was in fact an Excel sheet.
I think the training part that will make this a tough sell is getting the users to use tags. Unless there is a way to make it so you can't save the file until at least one tag is added, I just don't see users doing it. Just look at posts here - Scott follows behind me and I'm sure countless others adding tags to our OPs so they are searchable later.
