Running Quickbooks is like....
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care. -
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
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But Sturgeon's Law points out that 90% of literature is crap. What it leaves out is that the 10% that is good has 90% of the readers. We are not mocking the 90% of authors who are incapable of writing good literature. We are calling out the readers who choose to read bad books instead of good ones.
People produce crap to make money. That is not foolish. Sad, but not foolish. It is people who buy crap when something better is free that we must mock to help them to improve.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
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That's the IT / YM dilemma. If we want to be good at IT, we have to do good IT. If we want to be good at IT and/or we want to assist the businesses that we support in their business success we must provide good IT.
If we redefine our goals as "yes men" and our only goal or primary goal is not IT or business but is, in fact, to kiss up and make making others who are failing feel good about themselves regardless of their failings then we can choose to do that - but we can't in good conscious think of ourselves as IT. We are not providing IT beyond what would be provided if we did not exist. We are simply "feel gooders" making people feel good whatever they do.
That was my point about doctors. Plenty of doctors will do this too, tell you anything that you want to hear. But we don't take them seriously.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
Exactly. And no one would consider thinking of them as serious doctors or their patients as taking their health seriously. One is there to "feel good" temporarily and the other is to make money taking advantage of that. Neither is there for the purpose of providing or receiving meaningful healthcare.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
Exactly. And no one would consider thinking of them as serious doctors or their patients as taking their health seriously. One is there to "feel good" temporarily and the other is to make money taking advantage of that. Neither is there for the purpose of providing or receiving meaningful healthcare.
Still, those doctors are in the majority. For me to find a good doctor I respect is a rarity. Same situation with QB. Pablum and tradition is good enough for the majority.
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But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
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The average business, the ones in the majority, fail. We don't give respect for failure, right? Not that failure is "wrong" it's just... failure. So anyone using "the majority" as a bar for wanting respect should not be getting rewarded.
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@scottalanmiller said:
But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
Money - you'll never get rich making a product that caters only to the top 1% most logical and rational. QB exists and makes money because they make a product that caters to the other 99%. Same for any field, any product - for you to bemoan that is just shouting at the tide.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
Money - you'll never get rich making a product that caters only to the top 1% most logical and rational. QB exists and makes money because they make a product that caters to the other 99%. Same for any field, any product - for you to bemoan that is just shouting at the tide.
But the thread is about respect, not money. We don't respect con men, mafia, crooks or brown nosers - even though they often get rich.
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If our goal was to get rich at any cost, we'd not work in IT (or social media.)
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Steve Ballmer is rich, no one respects him. He might be able to buy people to tell him what he wants to hear, but he can never go to a grocery store and not have people snickering behind his back. Money can buy you yes men, but it can't buy you respect.
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For the majority, getting rich is the goal. Respect, again, only matters to the rational 1%. The true tragedy of it all is that the rational 1% are smart enough to see that the system is f[moderated], but not smart enough to come up with a solution.
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For the majority, they only want enough respect or integrity to get away with what they want. It's not an end in and of itself like it is for you and me.
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We should not have to preface each IT discussion with "assuming we aren't trying to be scammers but actually want to do our jobs." We need to assume that from the outset. If we didn't care about IT or business, we'd just bring in vendors to do all of the "work" and get kick backs on everything and sell the businesses up the river. We don't need to discuss how to do that, everyone knows how to do it and the "average" IT pro already does this and the "average" business owner can't figure out that there is no IT being done and only his wallet getting a siphon attached to it. Clueless, hubris filled business owners being taken advantage of by a completely standard model of IT scamming. But people doing that have no need to discuss IT. Business owners doing that have no need to go to business forums. It doesn't take thought or effort to live in that world. It also doesn't make any money.
But assuming that our starting point is that we want to do good jobs for people who want to succeed... then the majority actions are only relevant as being a warning sign, a red flag, that if the majority do it, it's almost certainly a bad idea.
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Again - succeed at what? Most business people just want to make money. They don't want to have high standards or make the world a better place.
You're preaching to the choir with me, but you're most everyone else doesn't give a shit. Does QB get the job done? Is it what my accountant uses? Good enough. IT guys complains? who gives a shit, I pay his salary.
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@Nic said:
Again - succeed at what? Most business people just want to make money. They don't want to have high standards or make the world a better place.
Success at making money. Using QB does not make them money, it loses them money. Maybe not enough money to go under, but is "not going under" or "not losing too much" a mark of financial success?
We are specifically talking about making money. QB stands in the way of that.
We already know that the majority of SMBs go out of business and the majority use QB just before doing so. So if we go with nothing but "majorities" then using QB is the best way to lose money.
