Running Quickbooks is like....
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
It's built on a 25 year old codebase which is insanely hard for them to update. Again, I'm not making excuses for them, just explaining why.
Can't be that hard. Their competitors did it in no time with a fraction of the resources. In reality, the cost and effort of maintaining software for which there are no skills on the market is far harder. The only benefit that they get is in screwing their customers through fragility and lock-in. If their goals was quality software at low cost, they could migrate easily to a new code base. I say this because their competitors can migrate you to other code bases that are vastly superior with little effort.
We see the same excuses made by custom fitness equipment vendors. They hire a bunch of devs to make their program, then fire them all when they're done. Now a decade later they tell me to lower my desktop resolution to 1024x768 and 16bit color as a suggestion to help their crusty old code run. Boils my biscuits.
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@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
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We work with accountants and bookkeepers too, and QB isn't actually that popular from what we've seen. Of course, we only hire good people and only good companies tend to look to us for help, so there is a bit of self selection there. But in the real world of successful businesses, I'm really not seeing QB as much of a thing for the past several years. I don't think the QB stranglehold on the low end business world is as dramatic as people like to think that it is while trying to excuse why they use it.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
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Sturgeon's Law is the basis, or better Kipling's adage from which Sturgeon's was derived we assume, for much of Adams' theory that 99% of workers are "in the way" of the 1% that actually produce everything that we have in spite of the 99%, rather that because of.
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Kipling's refers to products. Sturgeon's to art. Adams' to work.
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It is interesting that over time, as people become accustomed to the laws, that the percentages grow dramatically. Kipling said that 80% of products were worthless. Sturgeon that 90% of art was crap. Adams that 99% of work was useless or negative in value.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care. -
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
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But Sturgeon's Law points out that 90% of literature is crap. What it leaves out is that the 10% that is good has 90% of the readers. We are not mocking the 90% of authors who are incapable of writing good literature. We are calling out the readers who choose to read bad books instead of good ones.
People produce crap to make money. That is not foolish. Sad, but not foolish. It is people who buy crap when something better is free that we must mock to help them to improve.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
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That's the IT / YM dilemma. If we want to be good at IT, we have to do good IT. If we want to be good at IT and/or we want to assist the businesses that we support in their business success we must provide good IT.
If we redefine our goals as "yes men" and our only goal or primary goal is not IT or business but is, in fact, to kiss up and make making others who are failing feel good about themselves regardless of their failings then we can choose to do that - but we can't in good conscious think of ourselves as IT. We are not providing IT beyond what would be provided if we did not exist. We are simply "feel gooders" making people feel good whatever they do.
That was my point about doctors. Plenty of doctors will do this too, tell you anything that you want to hear. But we don't take them seriously.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
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@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
Exactly. And no one would consider thinking of them as serious doctors or their patients as taking their health seriously. One is there to "feel good" temporarily and the other is to make money taking advantage of that. Neither is there for the purpose of providing or receiving meaningful healthcare.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Nic said:
You don't have much choice if all the accountants in a 100 mile radius only use QB. And most businesses are shitty too, so they just go with whatever is handy.
Accounting is one of those things that has no reason to be local. We changed accountants over this, it's not an idle threat. Even in the poorest, remotest regions there are accountants who want to make money and do their job well.
I'm not saying that I'm surprised that Intuit has a market in working with crappy accountants to screw businesses that just don't take the effort to run well. I'm just saying that as IT we should never act like it isn't ridiculous on many levels and that businesses that do this can't honestly expect anyone else to actually take them seriously.
You can't just pretend Sturgeon's Law doesn't rule the universe
I don't at all. I'm simply stating that if you are crap, I'm not going to pretend that I don't notice and give you a prize for failing because "everyone should feel special."
That doesn't change the fact that 90% of everything and everyone is crap
You can call out QB for being shitty and be right, but the reality is that once you lead the market you only have to innovate enough not to lose customers and ride that into obsolescence. People aren't going to change from QB unless there's a crisis, so you've got a guaranteed generation of customers. Yes the millennials will use something else, but the shareholders of QB are old farts who won't live long enough to care.I wasn't calling out QB, I was pointing out the reaction that IT should have to businesses that are willing to choose it.
You know as well as I do how much actual selection power IT pros have in SMB
Selective power is not the issue. If IT has no selective power, IT has no function and need not exist. If IT does not select, IT does not exist and is pretend. If IT is to have value IT must have value to provide. Even if management does not listen, IT cannot stop functioning as IT or IT stops existing.
By the logic that "why bother because no one is likely to listen" we literally might as well just stop learning IT, let vendors make all of the decisions and become a part of the majority in calling ourselves IT while actually scamming the businesses that hire us much like QB and the accountants are doing.
Back to your original analogy - plenty of doctors hand out unnecessary antibiotics like candy to make helicopter parents happy. So they're no better off than the IT pros.
Exactly. And no one would consider thinking of them as serious doctors or their patients as taking their health seriously. One is there to "feel good" temporarily and the other is to make money taking advantage of that. Neither is there for the purpose of providing or receiving meaningful healthcare.
Still, those doctors are in the majority. For me to find a good doctor I respect is a rarity. Same situation with QB. Pablum and tradition is good enough for the majority.
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But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
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The average business, the ones in the majority, fail. We don't give respect for failure, right? Not that failure is "wrong" it's just... failure. So anyone using "the majority" as a bar for wanting respect should not be getting rewarded.
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@scottalanmiller said:
But why is the majority a point? We don't respect the majority, right? Why is it relevant?
Money - you'll never get rich making a product that caters only to the top 1% most logical and rational. QB exists and makes money because they make a product that caters to the other 99%. Same for any field, any product - for you to bemoan that is just shouting at the tide.
