Rapid Desktop Replacement
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@BRRABill said:
If the computer does have some more advanced programs on it (say they are a 1 person shop running a donations database or something) might you change your line of thinking for an image backup? (With proper licensing, of course.) How does a 1 person shop or home user get imaging rights if your thought DID change to this?
No, there would be a chain of thinking. First I'd think "oh, that needs an image backup", then that would trigger "anything that triggers the desire to image a desktop means something is fundamentally wrong" and that would trigger me to think about critical data and why it would be stored of an end point device.
The answer here should be to move those critical data-storing apps elsewhere. To a server, to a hosted site... whatever. A high quality VPS starts at $5/mo. If the system isn't worth $5, it's not critical in the least.
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@BRRABill said:
How does a 1 person shop or home user get imaging rights if your thought DID change to this?
Always in the same way. Only one process. But fundamentally, there is no reason for a home user to be doing this. Imaging is the wrong toolset for backups for desktops (for the purpose of this type of restore.)
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I really think the rapid replacement only really qualifies for a business that can or does do VL based licensing and images for all the reasons you mentioned.
There isn't really a way to rapid replace a home user/very small SMB shop. But in that vain I'd consider the following:
You are allowed to create images of each machine to be restored on the same hardware that the image came from.
I've never of an issue for the following: You buy a computer and it dies 2 years in and is replaced by a warranty. Assuming the machine is nearly identical, you can apply the backup image you have to that replacement machine, then explain to MS licensing that your machine was replaced under warranty and you're restoring your image from the original machine. Also, when the vendor send you your replacement machine, before you remove the old Operating System, boot it up and extract the License Key. You might be able to just put that key into your restored system and it will register without the need to call MS.
If you don't have end up with essentially the same hardware, your image might not even boot once restored, and I'm guessing MS wouldn't give you a pass on the OEM situation and you'll be forced to reinstall from scratch.
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@BRRABill said:
I understand this is more on a personal/hobby/SOHO basis. Most companies of any size would be using VL and imaging.
But NOT imaging of the machine to be restored. New builds from a central image. No one anywhere at any size is normally doing full image / replace strategies for desktops. It's just not how it is done, it is not practical.
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Imaging is not a good way to backup a machine because it assumes you are restoring to the same hardware. What if you need to restore to a different OS version (this could mean nothing more than different patch levels?)
What we need to do is back up data and have apps ready to deploy. Each situation is different and we would need an exact scenario to know what works best in that one instance but a common strategy, even for home users is:
- Have apps ready to be deployed from online (I have a JetBrains account, for example, no need to keep JB apps local as I can download the latest version at any time that I need it.)
- Have simple things like those that Chocolatey deploys ready to go in a batch file. Just deploy and go. Get coffee, apps are back.
- Have other apps stored on a USB stick or something, on a share. Something simple.
- Use normal desktop backup methods to backup to a local NAS.
- Use normal OS installation tools.
Restore in minutes. No complications, no issues.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
I understand this is more on a personal/hobby/SOHO basis. Most companies of any size would be using VL and imaging.
But NOT imaging of the machine to be restored. New builds from a central image. No one anywhere at any size is normally doing full image / replace strategies for desktops. It's just not how it is done, it is not practical.
Yep. Even at a small scale if you really wanted this all you need is 1 VL of windows that you are using (as long as the computers are licesned for the same version or newer that has downgrade rights [must be same edition which is going to be Pro]) and 1 server that you can set up WDS on. And if you don't have more than 2 people doing the imaging you shouldn't need more than the 2 administrative cals windows comes with.
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And you can do it sans WDS too. You can use tools like FOG or Clonezilla or Veeam or whatever you like.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
I understand this is more on a personal/hobby/SOHO basis. Most companies of any size would be using VL and imaging.
But NOT imaging of the machine to be restored. New builds from a central image. No one anywhere at any size is normally doing full image / replace strategies for desktops. It's just not how it is done, it is not practical.
Yep. Even at a small scale if you really wanted this all you need is 1 VL of windows that you are using (as long as the computers are licesned for the same version or newer that has downgrade rights [must be same edition which is going to be Pro]) and 1 server that you can set up WDS on. And if you don't have more than 2 people doing the imaging you shouldn't need more than the 2 administrative cals windows comes with.
Wow, talk about nearly the most expensive way to go.
Really VL isn't worth it if you can't justify the 5 licenses required to get into VL in the first place. If you are a one man shop and don't need an onsite server, buying that server license $800+, two CALs $75+, Software Assurance for Windows desktop $175+, and a third CAL because it's the least expensive VL thing you can buy, you're looking at $1200.
You might be better off just buying a second identical computer and dropping an image on it from time to time from your main machine. -
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
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@Dashrender said:
You might be better off just buying a second identical computer and dropping an image on it from time to time from your main machine.
Or actually syncing them in real time at that point!
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@Dashrender said:
Really VL isn't worth it if you can't justify the 5 licenses required to get into VL in the first place. If you are a one man shop and don't need an onsite server, buying that server license $800+, two CALs $75+, Software Assurance for Windows desktop $175+, and a third CAL because it's the least expensive VL thing you can buy, you're looking at $1200.
You might be better off just buying a second identical computer and dropping an image on it from time to time from your main machine.Yes but apparently they don't care about making financially sound decisions.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
I don't understand, how are the two CALs free? Do you mean free as in unassigned?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
I don't understand, how are the two CALs free? Do you mean free as in unassigned?
Each server licences comes with two CALs for administrative purposes.
Server software licensed using CALs permits up to 2 users or devices to access the server software for the purposes of administration without CALs. However, if your administrators also use the software for anything other than administration (for example, they check their email), CALs will be required for them as well.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
I don't understand, how are the two CALs free? Do you mean free as in unassigned?
You get two service accounts with the server. @jason mentioned it explicitly when he posted about it.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
I don't understand, how are the two CALs free? Do you mean free as in unassigned?
Each server licences comes with two CALs for administrative purposes.
Server software licensed using CALs permits up to 2 users or devices to access the server software for the purposes of administration without CALs. However, if your administrators also use the software for anything other than administration (for example, they check their email), CALs will be required for them as well.
Actually, no - your quote specifically said permits up to 2 users or devices to access the server software for the purposes of administration without CALs
So I'm back to not seeing any free CALs
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@Dashrender said:
So I'm back to not seeing any free CALs
You don't need to buy the CAL. That's the point.
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@Jason said:
@Dashrender said:
So I'm back to not seeing any free CALs
You don't need to buy the CAL. That's the point.
Aww - OK I see where you're going with this. But I'd disagree. You do need the CAL if as in your example your point is to use the server as a WDS box. So that single user would need a CAL for WDS access, which is outside the normal administration of a server.
But that gets us back to
@scottalanmiller said:
The two CALs are free. Doesn't change the math, just saying.
Which is correct. You still need 5 Open Licenses to get a VL agreement in place, so the pricing doesn't change in your scenario (1 server, 1 workstation SA, 3 CALs).
If we were looking for the lowest cost option with VL, 1 workstation SA, 4 CALs, we're still at $475 vs $1200...depending on the business, might be worth it, maybe.. but probably not.
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@Dashrender said:
Aww - OK I see where you're going with this. But I'd disagree. You do need the CAL if as in your example your point is to use the server as a WDS box. So that single user would need a CAL for WDS access, which is outside the normal administration of a server.
Depends on who you ask. Using WDS could be considered a purely administrative task.
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I support around a 100 desktops and don't bother with imaging or backups. I don't worry about backups because I just don't find HP PCs fail on a regularly basis, so its simply not worth the effort of worrying about them. And the majority of users only use standard applications (Office basically), so I can setup a new HP PC, including installing Office and uninstalling HP bloatware, in about 20 minutes.
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Holy cow. I drive to work, and there are 18 posts!
So, I am switching to the side of 100% agreeing with you in ALL business cases. Regardless of what you run, desktop re-imaging isn't necessarily the best way to go. I am just thinking of it as a convenience. I'm working at 12. I got lunch, and my laptop gets stolen. I pick up a new laptop on the way back from Best Buy and I am back up and running as I was at 12 pretty quickly.
But ... I store all my personal stuff on this laptop too, which makes me think me reticence here is machines only on a personal level. I guess I am really thinking of a personal level. Like your elderly uncle who has all their pictures and music on their machines, but aren't backing up.
Is it really just a matter of ... hey if it is important to them they should know better? Or ... hey if it is really that important, it's more than just a personal machine and should be considered as such?
