Backup System For 5 PC SMB
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Okay, so you meant going to "bring your own device" as a failover - going to somthing outside of the IT's dominion.
It's how small companies roll for the most part. At least the ones I deal with. Not saying it is right. Just saying it is.
It's critical from a licensing standpoint, though. With the kind of VDI that you were looking at, every device at home that they want to use would need its own license as they don't have enterprise, VL or SA licenses attached to them. Using consumer gear with straight VDI is a problem.
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One of the keys here is, I think....
- Decide that you want to use Microsoft technologies and then work in a solution set that is completely defined by their licensing restrictions or....
- Decide to work without Microsoft products and potentially have the freedom to do basically anything that you want.
More or less it is... you can't have your cake and eat it, too. The choice of Windows is a tradeoff primarily around licensing restrictions. If they feel that MS' products are so awesome that they are the best choice, and most companies do certainly, then they live in a highly curtailed world. They always have the option to avoid that if they wanted.
If you went to the Mac world the choices are far, far fewer. You are stuck with no virtualization options at all, no VDI at all, only one hardware vendor, etc. So MS is actually the more flexible of the two making them middle of the road, overall, for licensing.
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I get where you are coming from, I really do. The idea that you can just take an image and file up somewhere is so simple and obvious. I think if you look at it from MS' perspective it makes sense, mostly, though....
To MS they gave you a discount on the license cost to have it tied to hardware so that you have limited options. If they didn't do this you would get all kinds of flexible use cases out of their software that they need to make money on. VDI is a huge money maker for them so giving it away for free to OEM license holders would make OEM restrictions vanish and FPP licenses pointless and revenues decline. If you could just move the license to another box you would buy a cheaper second desktop without a Windows license on it and move your failed license over there.
Even if you put in restrictions like "system failure" to authorize a license relocation all you are doing is making people either argue over "what constitutes a failure" or induce failures to gain licensing rights. It doesn't work well in practice.
From what you "want" to do with it it all seems very reasonable. The problem isn't what you want to do but what allowing what you want to do would enable others to do.
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I've seen accounting firms go to Linux across the board for just these reasons.
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I wonder how feasible Linux is for the customer in question. What applications are they running? What tools do they use? You can do a lot on Linux these days, small businesses rarely want to go that route because they are used to Windows, already know it, have some well established tools there or whatever, but very often Linux is totally viable.
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It's a discussion trend today: http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1272035-windows-10-pro-in-a-vm-server-consolidation-impossible-eula-wise
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Also if you fail over from the desktops to something else and then restore the desktop you have to handle the changes made while you restore the backups somehow. Since you have no file server the files on each desktop will be changing.
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This is limited use, though, and ONLY if the primary machine this is a mirrored backup of is not running. AKA the two machines are never running at the same time. This isn't running two VMs off one license. It is using a disaster recovery backup only if the initial machine goes down.
This client (friend) called me because he was sold on this concept by a company that sells this service. (Datto.) It sounds awesome. It IS awesome. Except apparently to the detriment of everyone involved but Microsoft it's not legal.
I understand this is Microsoft's product and they can do what they want. And this is why many people switch to something else, but sheesh.
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@BRRABill said:
this client (friend) called me because he was sold on this concept by a company that sells this service. (Datto.) It sounds awesome. It IS awesome. Except apparently to the detriment of everyone involved but Microsoft it's not legal.
Datto, same as Unitrends, App Assure etc. is meant for server backups, not desktop. Server liscencing is very different. We have RDP servers along with loaner laptops that our technicians can give out to users until technicians repair or re-image a desktop (with a department WDS image, not something specific to that user). Having a centralized file server is what allows it to work easily.
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@Jason said:
Also if you fail over from the desktops to something else and then restore the desktop you have to handle the changes made while you restore the backups somehow. Since you have no file server the files on each desktop will be changing.
With these pieces of software (Datto and ShadowPrtoect) the VM continues to do backups. When you are ready with the new BMR machines, it merges the changes and you are back up and running.
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@BRRABill said:
With these pieces of software (Datto and ShadowPrtoect) the VM continues to do backups. When you are ready with the new BMR machines, it merges the changes and you are back up and running.
It's not as seemless as you are making it sound. In theory its nice, but in practice it's not going to go that well.
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BTW: I looked at the pricing for AWS.
$35 a month for standard? What is the business justification for that considering you can buy a PC for $500 that lasts for 3+ years?
I love the concept but don't get the pricing.
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@Jason said:
It's not as seemless as you are making it sound. In theory its nice, but in practice it's not going to go that well.
Agreed.
I would think I'd tell people ... hey, the machine is up for emergencies (server or desktop) and I'll get the real machine up pronto.
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@BRRABill said:
BTW: I looked at the pricing for AWS.
$35 a month for standard? What is the business justification for that considering you can buy a PC for $500 that lasts for 3+ years?
I love the concept but don't get the pricing.
How much does power cost, Cooling, HA, Battery backups, WAN connections etc. Those all go into AWS costs which that $500 does not include.
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@Jason said:
Why not just leave it at this?
Good point.
Though I'd love to be able to spin up the image here and there to be sure it is bootable. Datto does that daily. Apparently that isn't legal.
Also, most SMBs do not have servers just sitting around, and it's not like you can run out to Besy Buy and get one.
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@BRRABill said:
Also, most SMBs do not have servers just sitting around, and it's not like you can run out to Besy Buy and get one.
Very few SMBs don't have servers, if they don't they are more in the SOHO market than SMB, escpially if Best buy is someone you'd buy from.
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@Jason said:
How much does power cost, Cooling, HA, Battery backups, WAN connections etc. Those all go into AWS costs which that $500 does not include.
And you still need a local PC to access it.
I just don;t get it...
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@Jason said:
Very few SMBs don't have servers, if they don't they are more in the SOHO market than SMB, escpially if Best buy is someone you'd buy from.
I forgot server licensing is different with this.
Have to get back to that! LOL.
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@BRRABill said:
@Jason said:
How much does power cost, Cooling, HA, Battery backups, WAN connections etc. Those all go into AWS costs which that $500 does not include.
And you still need a local PC to access it.
I just don;t get it...
That doesn't change Amazon's cost. You could use a low power Thin client for that matter.
Again if these costs are too much, why are we worried about a little down time? Has anyone actually figured up how much down time is costing the company?
