Just spit-balling here....
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@DustinB3403 said:
The OS is all Microsoft Server 2### so an Enterprise operating system. The equipment that this is installed onto is my concern its not much more than a consumer desktop.
Hopefully I can get this to change for the better in the immediate future.
But that isn't homebrew in the least, it's just junk. Unrelated concepts. You can say a BMW is an enterprise car and a Toyota is junk. But no matter how crappy your Toyota is, it doesn't become homemade until you start getting parts and putting your own car together. The amount that it is "manufactured" in the same style process as a BMW is 100%. Quality is not related to the concept of being made at home as a hobby project.
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I disagree. Buying all of the components and putting it together is homebrew.
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@JaredBusch said:
I disagree. Buying all of the components and putting it together is homebrew.
I would agree to some degree IF we are talking about whiteboxing. I'm not clear that that is what they have done.
Although, do you feel the same way if you get parts for a Proliant or a PowerEdge? What about self-assembly of a SuperMicro? It's a grey area as we almost always do some amount of assembly manually and almost always some is done for us. At what point, how many or which components, that we have to do ourselves does it switch from a "pre-made server" to a "homebrew"? Whitebox we know is when we assemble disassociated parts, but just assembling stuff at home doesn't imply that we are doing anything more "at home" than putting in a few screws.
The problem is, it implies so much more than is there. Even assembling a server from scratch (I've done this on a Proliant recently) I would never call that home brew. I think the term doesn't apply to servers. We have OEM and whitebox systems that cover the describable aspects. Homebrew makes people think of the IT guy "making" some aspect of the system himself (the OS, the application, the hardware... something) that goes above and beyond the existing concept of a whitebox.
At least that is how I hear it used - and people use the term to refer to Proliant and PowerEdge servers normally, not in the way that Dustin might be using it here. They actually use it on Spiceworks to mean "installing an OS yourself" being homebrew. Meaning every cloud system, every VM, every normal server is homebrew to those people.
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I get that taking a bunch of spare parts laying around your house and assembling them into something that kind of works seems pretty home-brewish and I'd be okay if the term was being used when that happened and not just when someone has to install a server OS. But it shouldn't be linked to quality specifically, perhaps to support or something.
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Here is another topic on a very close line to this one.
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@DustinB3403 said:
Here is another topic on a very close line to this one.
That's whitebox vs. OEM, it sounds like.
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@JaredBusch said:
I disagree. Buying all of the components and putting it together is homebrew.
Then every IBM/HP/Dell sever I've ever installed is homebrew I guess.
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@JaredBusch said:
I disagree. Buying all of the components and putting it together is homebrew.
@Dashrender said:
Then every IBM/HP/Dell sever I've ever installed is homebrew I guess.
You buy the components and put them all together?
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@JaredBusch said:
@JaredBusch said:
I disagree. Buying all of the components and putting it together is homebrew.
@Dashrender said:
Then every IBM/HP/Dell sever I've ever installed is homebrew I guess.
You buy the components and put them all together?
I buy the server and install the HDDs and RAM, and if needed, the second processor. Doesn't that qualify for what you are saying?
FYI, I'm also totally dogging you - I don't consider this homebrew in the least. Whiteboxes, things below SuperMicro are where homebrew comes to my mind.
The idea that @scottalanmiller mentions where people think that installing and OS suddenly makes a machine a homebrew is just ludicrous. That would make nearly every machine on the planet a homebrew, someone has to install it, or build the scripts, etc to do the install.
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@scottalanmiller is the only one who called install the OS a homebrew. no one else did.
@Dashrender said:
I buy the server and install the HDDs and RAM, and if needed, the second processor. Doesn't that qualify for what you are saying?Honestly, it damn near does. Why are you not buying this server built to spec? How much are you saving doing it yourself? How much time are you spending researching things and choosing components, etc.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
I buy the server and install the HDDs and RAM, and if needed, the second processor. Doesn't that qualify for what you are saying?
Honestly, it damn near does. Why are you not buying this server built to spec? How much are you saving doing it yourself? How much time are you spending researching things and choosing components, etc.
Hold the phone - who specs your servers? Don't you do that? meaning you need to do all that research to know what parts you want in the box?
Now sure, I could pay CDW to put all of the components into the chassis, but frankly I enjoy that bit of down time in the mental process.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller is the only one who called install the OS a homebrew. no one else did.
I thought he was quoting someone(s) from SW?
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller is the only one who called install the OS a homebrew. no one else did.
Was not me. I specifically say that this is never homebrew. I've only said the exact opposite.
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@Dashrender said:
The idea that @scottalanmiller mentions where people think that installing and OS suddenly makes a machine a homebrew is just ludicrous. That would make nearly every machine on the planet a homebrew, someone has to install it, or build the scripts, etc to do the install.
The term that people in SW use for installing your own OS repeatedly is "DIY". It was only @DustinB3403 that I've ever seen use homebrew and he was using it to be "crappy", FWICT.
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@Dashrender said:
Hold the phone - who specs your servers? Don't you do that? meaning you need to do all that research to know what parts you want in the box?
I do, but when I order, there is nothing to put together. It is ordered from Dell through my preferred vendor.
And my research is honestly minimal. There is no reason for anything SMB to even think too hard about server hardware. You want a dual proc system with as much RAM and HDD/SSD space in RAIDXX as needed.
It is rare for the SMB to need a server processor that is more expensive than the "Dell Recommends" processor.
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@scottalanmiller said:
The term that people in SW use for installing your own OS repeatedly is "DIY". It was only @DustinB3403 that I've ever seen use homebrew and he was using it to be "crappy", FWICT.
It would require me to spend more time in more sections of SW then to realize that.
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@JaredBusch said:
@Dashrender said:
Hold the phone - who specs your servers? Don't you do that? meaning you need to do all that research to know what parts you want in the box?
I do, but when I order, there is nothing to put together. It is ordered from Dell through my preferred vendor.
And my research is honestly minimal. There is no reason for anything SMB to even think too hard about server hardware. You want a dual proc system with as much RAM and HDD/SSD space in RAIDXX as needed.
It is rare for the SMB to need a server processor that is more expensive than the "Dell Recommends" processor.
I'll give you that - but I don't buy Dell servers, I've been exclusively HP and IBM (but can't buy IBM anymore). As I said I could pay CDW, or whomever I buy from next since I've ditched CDW as my vendor, to put the parts together, but I enjoy that part.
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@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The term that people in SW use for installing your own OS repeatedly is "DIY". It was only @DustinB3403 that I've ever seen use homebrew and he was using it to be "crappy", FWICT.
It would require me to spend more time in more sections of SW then to realize that.
I get it a lot. Every time someone suggests making a file server instead of buying a super expensive enterprise NAS someone almost certainly will pop in an calling it a "DIY NAS" rather than an "enterprise file server." And it is people talking about installing Linux or Windows on a Proliant or PowerEdge nearly every time. It's like the secret backhand marketing of the NAS industry or something.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@JaredBusch said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The term that people in SW use for installing your own OS repeatedly is "DIY". It was only @DustinB3403 that I've ever seen use homebrew and he was using it to be "crappy", FWICT.
It would require me to spend more time in more sections of SW then to realize that.
I get it a lot. Every time someone suggests making a file server instead of buying a super expensive enterprise NAS someone almost certainly will pop in an calling it a "DIY NAS" rather than an "enterprise file server." And it is people talking about installing Linux or Windows on a Proliant or PowerEdge nearly every time. It's like the secret backhand marketing of the NAS industry or something.
Who is saying that? a NAS vendor or a SW user?
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@Dashrender All of the Above.
