MangoCon 2016 NYS
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
I think that is called being laid off for a day
Right... if you had no vacation day it was un-payed leave. Weirdest thing I've encountered.
Yup, it's called being laid off and the company is considered to be temporarily out of business. They can legally do it and likewise, you can legally not return to work the next day without warning and they can't claim that you quit - because technically they fired you. If people were paying attention and wanted an "out", they could take unemployment benefits, go to another job without giving notice, etc. The company would have no ability to block the benefits, claim the employee quit, etc. and if asked why they were laid off they'd have to admit that they had shut their doors and the employee did not ask for a new job when they reopened.
Businesses need the right to not be able to operate, but if they don't pay their staff when they do it they have to accept the consequences that people have the right to work too.
So it gets complicated, and weird.
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Interesting... I wonder if that is why the company picked up the tab on Tuesday for everyone they sent home due to the lack of water. We couldn't function as a business for patient care without water, but the staff could have stayed and made phone calls and worked on computer tasks - but since there were no bathrooms, management decided to send everyone home at 2 PM (2 hours after 'lunch') because of the lack of bathroom problems.
I'm assuming they decided to pay everyone because of what Scott said?
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@Dashrender said:
Interesting... I wonder if that is why the company picked up the tab on Tuesday for everyone they sent home due to the lack of water. We couldn't function as a business for patient care without water, but the staff could have stayed and made phone calls and worked on computer tasks - but since there were no bathrooms, management decided to send everyone home at 2 PM (2 hours after 'lunch') because of the lack of bathroom problems.
I'm assuming they decided to pay everyone because of what Scott said?
And legally you can't send people home without pay after you have called them to work. There is a minimum, at least in most states. Can't remember if that is a state or federal law that protects employees from being forced to go to work and then sent home without pay. I know that in NY if you are called into work and then sent home you get a minimum of four hours of work to ensure that you are paid for the time that you commuted into work and were not able to work at another job. Otherwise jobs would stop people from being able to pay their bills by calling them in for a full day and sending them home a few minutes later over and over till they couldn't afford gas anymore.
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Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
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@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
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@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
As is water, I'm pretty sure. Those two things are considered healthy and safety things. But I think that they might be covered by OSHA too.
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Sure, I'm sure you're both right. But what I'm saying is that the bathrooms only were cut off after 12 PM. So if we closed the doors at noon, we could have sent everyone home without pay for the remainder of the day - 1) to cover the bathroom issue, and 2) because we are over the 4 hours of pay requirement.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
As is water, I'm pretty sure. Those two things are considered healthy and safety things. But I think that they might be covered by OSHA too.
I'm pretty sure that is correct. We've had to close for the day when our water was shutoff (due to a well break).
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@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
As is water, I'm pretty sure. Those two things are considered healthy and safety things. But I think that they might be covered by OSHA too.
That's definitely not the case. Otherwise you couldn't have construction sites. Most don't have running water for weeks, months - they porta-pottys.
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@Dashrender said:
That's definitely not the case. Otherwise you couldn't have construction sites. Most don't have running water for weeks, months - they porta-pottys.
Not running water, but I think that they might need to provide it. But never assume what company do reflects legal requirements. Companies have learned that employees are terrible at knowing their rights or doing something about it. I've watched so many people roll over to companies blatantly breaking federal law left and right. It is actually really rare that employees do anything about getting the working environment, pay, leave, whatever that they have earned.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
As is water, I'm pretty sure. Those two things are considered healthy and safety things. But I think that they might be covered by OSHA too.
That's definitely not the case. Otherwise you couldn't have construction sites. Most don't have running water for weeks, months - they porta-pottys.
In NYS most construction sites have bulk water tanks. At least the large ones that I have seen. The odd thing is there are different rules for small construction companies. My uncle runs a three man crew (including himself) and they have different requirements for water and bathrooms.
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In NYS working bathroom facilities is a requirement for a business to allowed to be "open for business".
If you can't offer appropriate facilities for bodily functions, you legally can't have people on premise working / or customers until the facilities are brought up to a working condition.
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@coliver said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@coliver said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Yeah I've read those laws as well. That definitely wasn't the case here. Most people started at 8 AM, so having them go home a noon without pay would have them covered for that 4 hour requirement. Keeping them until 2 and giving them a 1 hour lunch still allowed that 4 hour to be covered.
Pretty sure that there is a different law about providing bathrooms, though
Bathrooms are required in NYS for any job site.
As is water, I'm pretty sure. Those two things are considered healthy and safety things. But I think that they might be covered by OSHA too.
That's definitely not the case. Otherwise you couldn't have construction sites. Most don't have running water for weeks, months - they porta-pottys.
In NYS most construction sites have bulk water tanks. At least the large ones that I have seen. The odd thing is there are different rules for small construction companies. My uncle runs a three man crew (including himself) and they have different requirements for water and bathrooms.
yes, there are all kinds of weird "small company" laws. Like you can openly discriminate on nearly any basis, don't have to meet minimum working conditions and all kinds of things that should not be exceptions. Laws that were written to protect workers often only apply to larger businesses. So the workers are not actually protected, it's actually small business owners being protected, law businesses being penalized and workers are just pawns.
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Okie, how about this for an idea.
White Vendor shirts..
And those who wish can tie-dye them.....
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Like a tie-die station?
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Calling @Minion-Queen for an update on the choice of a MangoCon 2016 location.
Needz the deetz
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We are actually looking at more locations this week. We are aiming for the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area for 2016.
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@Minion-Queen what time of year?
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I will hopefully get some dates to choose from this week as well. The coordination on this is MASSIVE. Have to make sure we do not hit any religious holidays, other major IT conventions and have availability for a venue. Then we start the real planning and insurance quotes and vendor quotes and and and and and......
