Lenovo Ushers in a New Era of Mobile Workstation Power and Performance with Lenovo ThinkPad P50 and P70
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
Isn't that the whole reason UEFI exists, so we can't have that happen?
No, UEFI exists to promote Windows lock in.
I guess I should rephrase that, wasn't that the proposed reason, so only verified code could run?
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@johnhooks said:
@hubtechagain I have a Lenovo that I got for free, however it has Linux on it so I think I'm ok?
We got one for free, I'm not impressed with it at all. I'm surprised that they decided to give something away that would not be impressive. So as a Lenovo owner I'm like "even for free, we aren't happy". Nothing is less impressive than only being marginally useful for free.
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@johnhooks said:
I guess I should rephrase that, wasn't that the proposed reason, so only verified code could run?
Yes, Microsoft verified code, not code for you. It's basically designed to promote malware that someone has paid the vendors to approve.
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@scottalanmiller Oh ok, I guess that makes sense. I never realized it had to be verified by them, but now that I think of it, who else could verify it?
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So how can we load Linux on through UEFI? They just allow it for now?
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@johnhooks said:
@scottalanmiller Oh ok, I guess that makes sense. I never realized it had to be verified by them, but now that I think of it, who else could verify it?
"Verified" is one of those tricky marketing words that sounds great and you can get people to say "of course we want that" when, in fact, it is generally a potentially very bad thing.
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@johnhooks said:
So how can we load Linux on through UEFI? They just allow it for now?
Linux itself isn't a thing. Some OSes are verified, some are not. UEFI can be made to be controlled by the user, sometimes not.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
So how can we load Linux on through UEFI? They just allow it for now?
Linux itself isn't a thing. Some OSes are verified, some are not. UEFI can be made to be controlled by the user, sometimes not.
Oh ok.
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UEFI makes things really complex
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Who do you use? I have an ASUS and it's been fine so far. I wondered if it's worth it to get something like a System76?
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I haven't built a system in over a decade
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So I've been thinking. Who's the bigger devil out of this mess, Lenovo who was using a channel that was given to them (which lets face it, most people would do - not all but most) or Microsoft for giving them the ability?
This is in reference to the pre Windows executed code, not superfish.
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@johnhooks said:
So I've been thinking. Who's the bigger devil out of this mess, Lenovo who was using a channel that was given to them (which lets face it, most people would do - not all but most) or Microsoft for giving them the ability?
This is in reference to the pre Windows executed code, not superfish.
Lenovo is my feeling. Not to get into that debate (because I think agree with how this sounds) but you don't blame the gun, you blame the person who wields it. There are tons and tons of ways to be harmed out there and we can't rely on people not making weapons or tools that can be used as weapons but on the criminals who see an opportunity to do harm and leverage it.
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For example.... do we blame the creators of C for making a programming language? Or do we blame the person who actually wrote a Trojan and used it to do something bad?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@johnhooks said:
So I've been thinking. Who's the bigger devil out of this mess, Lenovo who was using a channel that was given to them (which lets face it, most people would do - not all but most) or Microsoft for giving them the ability?
This is in reference to the pre Windows executed code, not superfish.
Lenovo is my feeling. Not to get into that debate (because I think agree with how this sounds) but you don't blame the gun, you blame the person who wields it. There are tons and tons of ways to be harmed out there and we can't rely on people not making weapons or tools that can be used as weapons but on the criminals who see an opportunity to do harm and leverage it.
When you put it that way with the guns, I agree.
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@s.hackleman said:
Can someone "explain it like i'm 5" why you need this kind of power in a mobile workstation? It seems like complete overkill for me.
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. The CPUs aren't that powerful. 32GB+ in a laptop is a minimum for me and I don't even run VMs, just multitask. If you need a workstation graphics card, however high-end, it's because you're doing 3D modeling or some other task that requires it. Developing for Oculus, for example, requires a very high end graphics card.
The idea behind a super high powered laptop is that you consolidate your workstations. You have a single laptop that replaces your desktop and you plug into monitors at the office and then take with you on the road without having to manage two different OSs, app sets, and setups.
I had to ditch the ASUS w/ the GTX 965 because it couldn't handle Oculus development. It also wouldn't allow for the use of 4 1440p monitors which I've now switched to ( ordered a stand yesterday ).
To me, these Lenovos aren't that powerful. Xeons are great at having tons of cores, not great at having blistering clock speeds.
I personally can't develop comfortably on less than a 3.5ish Ghz quad w/ HT ( somehow the 4-core i5 I had felt noticeably slower than the HT Xeon at about the same clock I'm on now ), 32GB, and specifically a Samsung SSD in rapid mode. Now that I'm finally on a legitimate graphics card and can see how dramatically it improves my computing experience I doubt I can ever shy away from that either. In fact the GTX 970 feels so nice that it's got me wondering whether I shouldn't upgrade to a 980 TI while I still can.
Just because you don't need something to get a job done doesn't mean that having it won't improve or dramatically improve your experience.
I'm actually excited about these workstations and the first UHD 17" screen I've seen. The idea of 64GB in a laptop and all of the things I could do with that is mouth-watering. You'd be surprised at how quickly professional editing and debugging tools combined w/ debugging code you're working with can saturate large amounts of RAM. I'm sure video editors, game-makers, 3D modelers, CADers, and other heavy duty pros make great use of systems like these.
For typical office peeps and light development though, you definitely don't need them. But honestly $2,000 is NOT expensive for a high-quality laptop ( not saying these are high-quality, I haven't touched one yet and I've seen a lot of shitty Lenovos at stores ), it's a bargain. You can configure some 17" Dell Precisions w/ less power than these that'll get you past $3,000 easily.
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@creayt I have to ask what you are developing that needs 32GB of RAM.
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@creayt said:
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. The CPUs aren't that powerful. 32GB+ in a laptop is a minimum for me and I don't even run VMs, just multitask.
It's not that the products I develop use 32GB of RAM, it's that all of my tooling, web browsing, Creative Cloud apps, and debugging, etc. all ad up to more than 24 GB and I think rapid mode uses a handful of GB ( used to be limited to 1, I think I read that it maxes out at 10% of system as of the last few updates so somewhere around 3 GB ). There are certain projects I've written that do a heavy amount of complex relational data assembly and caching at startup and serve that from a RAM cache, so it's nice to allocate 10+ GB to that when I'm working on it, but that's not at all times. In any case, I've tried working on 8, 16, and 24 GB and inevitably get the Windows pop up that the OS is running out of RAM.
I'm excited for the days when containers come to Windows and my workstation has as much RAM as my server ( 256GB ).
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Well considering this mornings conversation with Scott, this equipment no matter how good it looks is a non starter for me...
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