Greece Opts No New Proposal Today
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@Dashrender said:
So we'd bring our own people to run the ports - there always seems to be an abundance of charity.
That's what they should fear the most. Us taking over the country by force. Once we have control of the ports, we own them!
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@Dashrender said:
Will people still starve, die, etc.. sadly, yes - but damn.. spending has never (that I'm aware of) actually gotten anyone out of a jam before.
It does, actually. Economies are complex beasts. China is spending like mad because it is a proven means of saving themselves.
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@Dashrender said:
Will people still starve, die, etc.. sadly, yes - but damn.. spending has never (that I'm aware of) actually gotten anyone out of a jam before.
US History would generally disagree with this, although not always.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
Will people still starve, die, etc.. sadly, yes - but damn.. spending has never (that I'm aware of) actually gotten anyone out of a jam before.
It does, actually. Economies are complex beasts. China is spending like mad because it is a proven means of saving themselves.
That can't last forever.
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Famous examples of "spending your way out of a depression":
- New York. A small state with limited economic resources decided to "spend through" the huge depression of the 1880s. What did it do? It built the Erie Canal, the largest engineering project until its time. The result? New York became the world's economic center and NY not only made NY rich but put the US on track to become the world's biggest economy as a result.
- US. After the Great Depression in the 1930s, FDR's New Deal was a "spend through" strategy to put people to work and keep the economy moving when private investing had failed. The result? A war. But after that an unbelievable economic boom with the US having over 50% of the world economy.
- Spain. Happening today. Spain was where Greece was just three years ago. What did Spain do? They paid their bills, listened to their creditors and spent through investing in themselves. The result is that Spain pulled out of the recession faster than most anyone (other than Ireland who did so using austerity measures) and is well on the road to recovery.
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@scottalanmiller said:
- US. After the Great Depression in the 1930s, FDR's New Deal was a "spend through" strategy to put people to work and keep the economy moving when private investing had failed. The result? A war. But after that an unbelievable economic boom with the US having over 50% of the world economy.
I'd give the GI Bill it's fair share of credit too. Either way it certainly produced results.
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This mostly sums up the Greek Situation:
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China's morning of trading sees them down another 3.6% so far. All of Asia is falling from the collapse in China.
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Who owns Greek debt?
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That's a lot of Euro's.
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Rather a bit of Euros indeed.
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@mlnews said:
Who owns Greek debt?
I was thinking that Spain and the US carried a bit more of the load, very informational graphic.
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@coliver said:
@mlnews said:
Who owns Greek debt?
I was thinking that Spain and the US carried a bit more of the load, very informational graphic.
A few weeks ago before Scott educated me that Spain was more or less out of their debt crisis I would have been VERY surprised to see Spain carrying any of the debt.
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@coliver said:
@mlnews said:
Who owns Greek debt?
I was thinking that Spain and the US carried a bit more of the load, very informational graphic.
Spain is a healthy economy but only just out of a recession, 25% unemployment still and a much smaller country than France or Germany. When Spain helped to bail out Greece it was in deep in its own recession.
That's partially why Greece is so evil here. They robbed the poor, not the rich.
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So far Greece has failed to submit a new proposal today. The deadline is hours away.
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Official song from Greece
