Non-IT News Thread
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@mlnews said in Non-IT News Thread:
Climate change: New rules could spell end of 'throwaway culture
New rules could spell the death of a "throwaway" culture in which products are bought, used briefly, then binned.
The regulations will apply to a range of everyday items such as mobile phones, textiles, electronics, batteries, construction and packaging. They will ensure products are designed and manufactured so they last - and so they're repairable if they go wrong. It should mean that your phone lasts longer and proves easier to fix. That may be especially true if the display or the battery needs changing. It's part of a worldwide movement called the Right to Repair, which has spawned citizens' repair workshops in several UK cities.The right to repair has been an a hot button issue for a long time, particularly with things like Tractors that are becoming more advanced, GPS connected automatons that farmers classically could repair themselves.
The issues come in with where manufacturers say you can fix the physical item, but if the software is "broken" you need to pay the manufacturer to fix the issue (install updated software) vs the farmer creating and installing their own software.
I see the situation changing - they won't sell those items anymore, instead they will only be available for lease, period.
I don't have a general issue with this - the manufacturers need a reason to keep maintaining old stuff.
Take Windows for example, MS gets maybe $60 for a copy of Windows home put on a desktop computer, but has said they will supply Windows updates for 10+ years for no extra charge? It's likely a company can't realistically survive on that.
Purely consumer based companies need to keep charging, the once and done thing isn't sustainable, assuming the vendor must continue to supply something to support the old versions. -
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@mlnews said in Non-IT News Thread:
Climate change: New rules could spell end of 'throwaway culture
New rules could spell the death of a "throwaway" culture in which products are bought, used briefly, then binned.
The regulations will apply to a range of everyday items such as mobile phones, textiles, electronics, batteries, construction and packaging. They will ensure products are designed and manufactured so they last - and so they're repairable if they go wrong. It should mean that your phone lasts longer and proves easier to fix. That may be especially true if the display or the battery needs changing. It's part of a worldwide movement called the Right to Repair, which has spawned citizens' repair workshops in several UK cities.The right to repair has been an a hot button issue for a long time, particularly with things like Tractors that are becoming more advanced, GPS connected automatons that farmers classically could repair themselves.
The issues come in with where manufacturers say you can fix the physical item, but if the software is "broken" you need to pay the manufacturer to fix the issue (install updated software) vs the farmer creating and installing their own software.
I see the situation changing - they won't sell those items anymore, instead they will only be available for lease, period.
I don't have a general issue with this - the manufacturers need a reason to keep maintaining old stuff.
Take Windows for example, MS gets maybe $60 for a copy of Windows home put on a desktop computer, but has said they will supply Windows updates for 10+ years for no extra charge? It's likely a company can't realistically survive on that.
Purely consumer based companies need to keep charging, the once and done thing isn't sustainable, assuming the vendor must continue to supply something to support the old versions.The issue isn't about that original $60 dollars and maintain it for 10 years by supplying free updates.
The issue would be comparable if you or I could create a security or bug fix for Windows itself. We can't directly do this, we can fix the hardware in a desktop for example (replace a RAM module or the CPU etc) but we can't fix something inside of Windows.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@mlnews said in Non-IT News Thread:
Climate change: New rules could spell end of 'throwaway culture
New rules could spell the death of a "throwaway" culture in which products are bought, used briefly, then binned.
The regulations will apply to a range of everyday items such as mobile phones, textiles, electronics, batteries, construction and packaging. They will ensure products are designed and manufactured so they last - and so they're repairable if they go wrong. It should mean that your phone lasts longer and proves easier to fix. That may be especially true if the display or the battery needs changing. It's part of a worldwide movement called the Right to Repair, which has spawned citizens' repair workshops in several UK cities.The right to repair has been an a hot button issue for a long time, particularly with things like Tractors that are becoming more advanced, GPS connected automatons that farmers classically could repair themselves.
The issues come in with where manufacturers say you can fix the physical item, but if the software is "broken" you need to pay the manufacturer to fix the issue (install updated software) vs the farmer creating and installing their own software.
I see the situation changing - they won't sell those items anymore, instead they will only be available for lease, period.
I don't have a general issue with this - the manufacturers need a reason to keep maintaining old stuff.
Take Windows for example, MS gets maybe $60 for a copy of Windows home put on a desktop computer, but has said they will supply Windows updates for 10+ years for no extra charge? It's likely a company can't realistically survive on that.
Purely consumer based companies need to keep charging, the once and done thing isn't sustainable, assuming the vendor must continue to supply something to support the old versions.The issue isn't about that original $60 dollars and maintain it for 10 years by supplying free updates.
The issue would be comparable if you or I could create a security or bug fix for Windows itself. We can't directly do this, we can fix the hardware in a desktop for example (replace a RAM module or the CPU etc) but we can't fix something inside of Windows.
Oh but we can. And there are companies that do, i can't find the company that is reverse engineering the updates MS is releasing for businesses who pay, but they are and they are making those updates available to consumers free.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Oh but we can. And there are companies that do, i can't find the company that is reverse engineering the updates MS is releasing for businesses who pay, but they are and they are making those updates available to consumers free.
How / why would MS allow third parties to access their source code to create bug/security fixes? I've never heard of this, and it kind of flies in the face of every practice that has ever been expressed in any EULA from MS.
In any scenario, Tractor companies like Caterpillar say "absolutely no, you can't access the source code of the tractor, because you could then potentially steal the source code to build your own tractor".
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Oh but we can. And there are companies that do, i can't find the company that is reverse engineering the updates MS is releasing for businesses who pay, but they are and they are making those updates available to consumers free.
How / why would MS allow third parties to access their source code to create bug/security fixes? I've never heard of this, and it kind of flies in the face of every practice that has ever been expressed in any EULA from MS.
In any scenario, Tractor companies like Caterpillar say "absolutely no, you can't access the source code of the tractor, because you could then potentially steal the source code to build your own tractor".
I never said anyone accessed source code. This third pary (and many others, including hackers) get the patch, decompile it, discover what it does, then create their own patch that does the same function. I'm pretty sure MS can't make that part illegal.
Of course with the tractors, the situation is different, unlike an OS where you're expected to modify it for your own uses, the tractor software EULA I'm guess specifically expressly forbids you to modify it, so you're right, you likely aren't legally allowed to fix the software on your tractor, even if you do know how to.
This is an interesting situation - do/should we treat software and hardware the same? I can definitely get behind Right to Repair on physical things, software seems different, at least presently.
Now I say that - and I totally believe that software should not be patient-able, though copywrite I suppose could apply, but I don't know if you are allowed to modify copywritten materials for personal use without paying or legal issues.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
This is an interesting situation - do/should we treat software and hardware the same? I can definitely get behind Right to Repair on physical things, software seems different, at least presently.
That's the all important question. If you bought something (whatever it is) and you own it, you should be able to have the right to fix it. Correct?
Which the question then comes in, since you own the device did you just license the operating system?Or was the OS purchased and now owned by you to fix any bugs that a MS may have let slide through?
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
This is an interesting situation - do/should we treat software and hardware the same? I can definitely get behind Right to Repair on physical things, software seems different, at least presently.
That's the all important question. If you bought something (whatever it is) and you own it, you should be able to have the right to fix it. Correct?
Which the question then comes in, since you own the device did you just license the operating system?Or was the OS purchased and now owned by you to fix any bugs that a MS may have let slide through?
Most say it's a license to use, not an ownership situation.
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If you don't own the software that operates the computer (or whatever), but you physically own the device. And the software is broken (becomes corrupted etc) and you can't fix it because you're locked out, do you actually have the right to repair?
It's a much deeper question, but it's a valid one. A laptop is a small-fry type of conversation because if MS doesn't fix a known bug you can pretty easily reinstall a different OS. Tractors, not so much.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
If you don't own the software that operates the computer (or whatever), but you physically own the device. And the software is broken (becomes corrupted etc) and you can't fix it because you're locked out, do you actually have the right to repair?
It's a much deeper question, but it's a valid one. A laptop is a small-fry type of conversation because if MS doesn't fix a known bug you can pretty easily reinstall a different OS. Tractors, not so much.
I hear ya... and that's the deep question. Do you have a Right to Repair on software? I have no clue. Also, what are the limitations on Right to Repair?
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Do you have a Right to Repair on software? I have no clue. Also, what are the limitations on Right to Repair?
People who purchase a very expensive piece of farm equipment would say they have the right to repair everything related to that piece of equipment.
Manufacturer's have said in the past that, no they don't. They purchased the device at the revision they have, and if they want something fixed that they need to pay the manufacturer for it (even if it was something like a registry edit type change - Windows world example).
Farmers disagree here, because these are bug fixes.
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The same conversation goes with other things, like your smart car (Telsa is notoriously bad about this) in that if you make any change at all to the car that you own (not lease) from any non-authorized repairer that you void your warranty and they won't sell you parts, supply bug fixes or updates to the code to the car.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
Do you have a Right to Repair on software? I have no clue. Also, what are the limitations on Right to Repair?
People who purchase a very expensive piece of farm equipment would say they have the right to repair everything related to that piece of equipment.
Manufacturer's have said in the past that, no they don't. They purchased the device at the revision they have, and if they want something fixed that they need to pay the manufacturer for it (even if it was something like a registry edit type change - Windows world example).
Farmers disagree here, because these are bug fixes.
I understand the basis for Right to Repair. It's expected that a farmer will have the expertise to repair a broken breakline, and other mechanical things, but I don't expect a farmer to know how to change code. Even editing the registry would likely be beyond most farmers. And unlike Windows, a tractor likely has zero interface available to the farmer to do this - so the farmer would have to create their own interface first - or buy something from the vendor to allow it (but of course the vendor does not sell such an interfacing product to the end user - only to support personal).
So the situations are pretty different, and barely comparable in my mind. So without going to court and getting a decision - I have no clue where any of that stands legally.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
The same conversation goes with other things, like your smart car (Telsa is notoriously bad about this) in that if you make any change at all to the car that you own (not lease) from any non-authorized repairer that you void your warranty and they won't sell you parts, supply bug fixes or updates to the code to the car.
Due to safety concerns - you're going to have a much harder time with this specific one in court. it's like asking the doctor for the code to change dosing on your med machine - they can say no to prevent you from ODing...
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@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
Romania canceled high schools for the rest of the school year. Kids are told they will miss the year and have to do it over.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
Romania canceled high schools for the rest of the school year. Kids are told they will miss the year and have to do it over.
HOLY SHIT!
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
Romania canceled high schools for the rest of the school year. Kids are told they will miss the year and have to do it over.
My wife's college is preparing for remote learning as well. What sucks, they are instituting a new online learning portal next year, but now they are forced to get everyone onto the old system for this situation. On campus instructors often didn't bother using the system at all, and they are being forced to learn it and setup their classes - it's a mess.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
Romania canceled high schools for the rest of the school year. Kids are told they will miss the year and have to do it over.
My wife's college is preparing for remote learning as well. What sucks, they are instituting a new online learning portal next year, but now they are forced to get everyone onto the old system for this situation. On campus instructors often didn't bother using the system at all, and they are being forced to learn it and setup their classes - it's a mess.
Same for my campus, only more of the professors here do both in-class and online, so it will just be a matter of telling folks to log in. One of the guys on my Team has already told his class their final presentations are going to be done via Webex, lol.
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
My wife's college is preparing for remote learning as well.
Only, you know, over a decade after anything else is legacy and antiquated and, honestly, unprofessional in nearly any educational setting. Coronavirus is just exposes how poor our education practices, expectations, and infrastructure are.
Online learning wasn't something anyone should have been "preparing to implement" more than a decade ago. Even fifteen years ago it wasn't novel or new. Twenty years ago, maybe.
Offering in person classes for the minority that have unlimited funds, free time, and benefit from that style of learning? Great. Requiring it for anything outside of situations like labs, and only some of those, makes it hard to take the system seriously.
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@dafyre said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@coliver said in Non-IT News Thread:
Romania canceled high schools for the rest of the school year. Kids are told they will miss the year and have to do it over.
My wife's college is preparing for remote learning as well. What sucks, they are instituting a new online learning portal next year, but now they are forced to get everyone onto the old system for this situation. On campus instructors often didn't bother using the system at all, and they are being forced to learn it and setup their classes - it's a mess.
Same for my campus, only more of the professors here do both in-class and online, so it will just be a matter of telling folks to log in. One of the guys on my Team has already told his class their final presentations are going to be done via Webex, lol.
That's how it should be, options are fine, requirements are bad.
