Non-IT News Thread
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New hospital price lists are massive spreadsheets full of gibberish
From unintelligible abbreviations and jargon to $32,456.66 "headaches."
At Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, an “HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” will run you $35,014.00. If you go to Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, an “HC ECMO/ECLS INIT VENO-VENOUS” costs $51,384.00. And at Bellevue Hospital Center in New York City, a “TRLUML PERIP ATHRC ILIAC ART” goes for $22,689.83.
These mysterious prices—and tens of thousands of others—are all on the hospitals’ respective new price lists, available in beastly spreadsheets downloadable from the hospitals’ websites. As of January 1, hospitals around the country are now federally required to list all standard charges for common treatments and care. The goal is to make hospital billing more transparent, allowing patients to comparison shop and anticipate medical expenses.
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@mlnews So does every hospital list the same thing on each of their spreadsheets?
Is "HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” the same thing at every hospital and how does one figure out the abbreviation?
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@mlnews So does every hospital list the same thing on each of their spreadsheets?
Is "HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” the same thing at every hospital and how does one figure out the abbreviation?
One doesn't, that's the point. They are avoiding their legal requirements.
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Is "HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” the same thing at every hospital and how does one figure out the abbreviation?
https://bioportal.bioontology.org/ontologies/CPT?p=classes&conceptid=35566
Bypass graft, with vein; femoral-anterior tibial, posterior tibial, peroneal artery or other distal vessels
So obvious...
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@mlnews So does every hospital list the same thing on each of their spreadsheets?
Is "HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” the same thing at every hospital and how does one figure out the abbreviation?
One doesn't, that's the point. They are avoiding their legal requirements.
While at the same time fulfilling them, it would seem.
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@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
Is "HC BYP FEM-ANT TIBL PST TIBL PRONEAL ART/OTH DSTL” the same thing at every hospital and how does one figure out the abbreviation?
https://bioportal.bioontology.org/ontologies/CPT?p=classes&conceptid=35566
Bypass graft, with vein; femoral-anterior tibial, posterior tibial, peroneal artery or other distal vessels
So obvious...About as obvious as why no one likes hospitals or insurance. Use the common language not jargon.
We'll be performing an arterial bypass and it cost $35,014.00.
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citizens would be better served by a hospital (any medical facility really) being required to provide a full accounting of the anticipated costs of any non emergent situation before the patient visits.
Sadly - the system is so damned complex, it's nearly pointless. I have asthma. This means that a person with zero other pre-existing conditions normal office visit is, let's just say, $90. That same visit for me is $125. I have to pay a premium because - well at least the thinking is - the doctor has to put more thought into any advice with regards to my asthma, and is therefore worthy of being paid more.
Now, in a true open market situation - I'm totally on board with that, but healthcare is anything but a real open market.
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Another thing that just drives me mad - you call the insurance company and ask if something covered - 90/100 times they will tell you - they can't be 100% sure until they are billed by the doctor/facility.
Can't be sure? WTF? why not?
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
they can't be 100% sure until they are billed by the doctor/facility.
Can't be sure? WTF? why not?Because there are a thousand different codes the doctor can pull out of his ass for the same exact procedure.
It's infuriating
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@mlnews said in Non-IT News Thread:
Etch a Sketch lives on in browser-based Chrome Labs project
Web a Skeb is open source and works in both desktop and mobile browsers.
Everyone who remembers the Etch A Sketch slabs of yesteryear remembers how difficult it was to translate your vision onto its "magic screen," and how proud you felt upon success. Now, Google's Chrome Labs has translated that experience (quite literally) for the digital age with the fun Web A Skeb project. It's a browser-contained version of an Etch A Sketch that you can use to draw and doodle—if you can get the hang of its dials.
This could (will?) waste so much time...
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@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
they can't be 100% sure until they are billed by the doctor/facility.
Can't be sure? WTF? why not?Because there are a thousand different codes the doctor can pull out of his ass for the same exact procedure.
It's infuriating
Which is what makes it not a price sheet.
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@Dashrender well we know healthcare isn't an open market since this price lists have been hidden away in this ledger for who knows how long.
And people who don't have insurance are actually charged these rates. Where as those who do have insurance get some massive discount.
The issue stems from there not being any pricing controls for healthcare. They can charge whatever the hell they want because they've been allowed too. The pharma industry is trying to follow suit with this practice as well with their bout of price-jacking.
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@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
they can't be 100% sure until they are billed by the doctor/facility.
Can't be sure? WTF? why not?Because there are a thousand different codes the doctor can pull out of his ass for the same exact procedure.
It's infuriating
Well, and even worse - if there are complications - that tosses in dozens of more codes... so even more billing.
But a baseline is something they should be able to say - yes, removing an ingrown toenail is covered - along with any complications. that's not so bloody hard.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
they can't be 100% sure until they are billed by the doctor/facility.
Can't be sure? WTF? why not?Because there are a thousand different codes the doctor can pull out of his ass for the same exact procedure.
It's infuriating
Which is what makes it not a price sheet.
This is their claim for this BS
list all standard charges for common treatments and care
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
And people who don't have insurance are actually charged these rates. Where as those who do have insurance get some massive discount.
For tax purposes they might be billed this amount, but what people without insurance actually pay is often far less than what people with insurance pay total, including what insurance pays. (from my super limited experience anyway)
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@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
And people who don't have insurance are actually charged these rates. Where as those who do have insurance get some massive discount.
For tax purposes they might be billed this amount, but what people without insurance actually pay is often far less than what people with insurance pay total, including what insurance pays. (from my super limited experience anyway)
Yes, being without insurance often lowers the TOTAL cost out of pocket. It's crazy how much they screw people.
And that's just inside the US, people without insurance often leave the country for even better options abroad because they have the freedom to do so.
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@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
people without insurance often leave the country for even better options abroad because they have the freedom to do so.
and asshole hypocrite politicians do it, too...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rand-paul-hernia-canada-shouldice-1.4978260
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@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender well we know healthcare isn't an open market since this price lists have been hidden away in this ledger for who knows how long.
And people who don't have insurance are actually charged these rates. Where as those who do have insurance get some massive discount.
The issue stems from there not being any pricing controls for healthcare. They can charge whatever the hell they want because they've been allowed too. The pharma industry is trying to follow suit with this practice as well with their bout of price-jacking.
This is almost entirely, if not entirely people's own fault. They allowed it to happen. They allowed themselves to get treatment for non imminent things having no clue what the costs were/are.
I may or may not have an issue with the actual cost of these things each on their own.
As for insurance or non insurance costs - sure, that fake made up giant number is just that. Non insurance people rarely actually pay that number. They normally get some huge cash discount number - sure, it might take some time to get there, but frequently, in light of getting nothing and sending the patient to collections, they reduce it in the hopes of getting something instead of nothing.
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@bnrstnr said in Non-IT News Thread:
@scottalanmiller said in Non-IT News Thread:
people without insurance often leave the country for even better options abroad because they have the freedom to do so.
and asshole hypocrite politicians do it, too...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rand-paul-hernia-canada-shouldice-1.4978260
I assume your descriptors have nothing to do with the fact that he's going elsewhere to get the care?
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@Dashrender said in Non-IT News Thread:
@DustinB3403 said in Non-IT News Thread:
@Dashrender well we know healthcare isn't an open market since this price lists have been hidden away in this ledger for who knows how long.
And people who don't have insurance are actually charged these rates. Where as those who do have insurance get some massive discount.
The issue stems from there not being any pricing controls for healthcare. They can charge whatever the hell they want because they've been allowed too. The pharma industry is trying to follow suit with this practice as well with their bout of price-jacking.
This is almost entirely, if not entirely people's own fault. They allowed it to happen. They allowed themselves to get treatment for non imminent things having no clue what the costs were/are.
People can't know what is imminent or not, and often get little or no choice. Parents are threatened, people are told lies, there is no source of truth. The sole source of information is the same crooks making the money. People don't have the power or information to really make informed decisions. They cannot get up front pricing, nor honest evaluations. Without those two things, how do you expect them to be able to make choices, short of leaving the country first?
